3676 ответов в теме

[Swan]

Опять корабли сделанные из бумаги и не имеющие инерции вообще.

И в элите уже давно аткая посадка на планетоиды.

Зато по планетке можно побродить это ножками, это плюс.

[CHoh]

Опять корабли сделанные из бумаги и не имеющие инерции вообще.

Чтоб была инерция, надо выключить flight assist.

Всё как в той же элите.

[Karmael]

как выключить его на ютубе?

[L'ecran]

купить пледж 

[Karmael]

чот ждунцы окончательно поехали

[Psihius]

Чтоб была инерция, надо выключить flight assist.

Всё как в той же элите.

Даже с флайт ассистом корабли не должны моментом вставать как вкопанные.

Они там на рельсах - полное отсутствие массы. Смотришь любое видео посадки и это, извините, п***ц. И я что-то сомневаюсь что они хоть что-то там уже исправят (или потратят несколько лет опять). Такое поведение кораблей убивает погружение на корню - смотришь на махину андромеды, а ведёт она себя как объект с массой стремящейся к нулю - как из задачи по физике, блин.

 

А вращающийся во всех 3-х плоскостях истребитель, зависший в 100 метрах над землёй, как будто его прибили гвоздём к точке в 3д пространстве? В космосе ещё понятно, но в атмосфере такого не бывает.

Сообщение отредактировал Psihius: 12 October 2017 - 4:15

[CHoh]

Имхо степень влияния флайт ассиста поправить - как раз не проблема. Вопрос, считают ли это нужным править.

 

Атмосфера и прочее хз, если мы считаем, что мощности маневровых с запасом хватает, чтобы просто висеть, их хватит и для того, чтобы крутиться в атмосфере на месте.

Сообщение отредактировал CHoh: 12 October 2017 - 7:10

[61rus]

 

А вращающийся во всех 3-х плоскостях истребитель, зависший в 100 метрах над землёй, как будто его прибили гвоздём к точке в 3д пространстве? В космосе ещё понятно, но в атмосфере такого не бывает.

 

ничо ты не понимаешь! крис учился реализму у лучших! 

 

[Swan]

Имхо степень влияния флайт ассиста поправить - как раз не проблема. Вопрос, считают ли это нужным править.

Атмосфера и прочее хз, если мы считаем, что мощности маневровых с запасом хватает, чтобы просто висеть, их хватит и для того, чтобы крутиться в атмосфере на месте.

После такого даже и адвокатура треду не нужен. Новый офицерский чемодан, прямиком из житы.

[CHoh]

У меня-то есть и знания, и адекватность, чтобы как чемоданить, так и ругать проект в зависимости от того, что происходит в проекте.

 

А вот о некоторых никнеймах тут я не могу такого сказать.. ни первого, ни второго.

[Advokatura]

У меня-то есть и знания, и адекватность, чтобы как чемоданить, так и ругать проект в зависимости от того, что происходит в проекте.

 

А вот о некоторых никнеймах тут я не могу такого сказать.. ни первого, ни второго.

Шах и мат хейтеры, ещё есть кому подхватить знамя.

[CHoh]

Я хз о каком знамени речь.

Одно дело материть криса за срыв всех сроков и ничертанеделание за охрелион баксов.

Другое - придираться к мелочам, реализованным как минимум вполне ок.

 

Насчёт же альфы 3.0 - посмотрю "вживую", когда выкатят для всех.

Сомневаюсь, что тут у многих есть такая возможность.

Сообщение отредактировал CHoh: 12 October 2017 - 7:48

[markel]

Другое - придираться к мелочам, реализованным как минимум вполне ок.

 
Ну, давай я придирки перепощу, делов то..
 
(перевод пусть Адвакатура сделает, знамя оно такое)
 

THE 3.0 EVOCATI BUILD



Some of us have played it. And it’s horrid. That’s not even about the fact that it’s still pre-Alpha. No, it’s about the fact that six years and $160 million later, it’s an absolutely buggy mess of a tech demo, with zero redeeming qualities and no vertical slice. Need I even talk about the still MIA companion game, Squadron 42, last seen in Q4 2015?
Back in Nov 2016 I wrote that Chris Roberts had basically gone on stage, lied, and made up a bunch of shit. Several sources told me that, unequivocally, what was being touted as 3.0, simply didn’t exist. In any form. And CIG proved me right, months later in April 2017 when the first 3.0 dev schedule appeared – and looked nothing like what was promoted almost six months earlier.

“3.0 status: sources say all are still laughing at this one. It simple does NOT exist as was communicated to backers. It was basically a wishlist of items they wanted to see in a point release; and which Roberts when on the record (again) as saying was coming by “year end, and not on Dec 19th like last year“.” – Derek Smart, 11/02/2016

And they’ve continued to prove that I was right. First with the completely different 3.0 schedule released in April 2017. Then with the scaling back and removal of items they previously claimed were completed. Then with the sweeping bugs under the rug, and so on.
Basically, according to well placed sources, for them to release 3.0 as promised back in April 2017, with minimal bugs, decent performance, networking etc, it needs – at a minimum – another six to eight months in dev and QA. And CIG knows this. Hence the rushing out of this build, the talk of early access etc. So they’re going to dump it on backers, to grab some quick cash (there are still suckers funding this train wreck), then iterate on 3.0x as they did with 2.x – which they stopped updating back in April 2017 even though it has 3000+ bugs in it. So this 3.0 bug list is just going to add to the pile.
The key take away from those of us who have played it, boils down to this summary:

1) PERFORMANCE
Let’s just this one right out of the way. As warned back in July by various sources, performance is way worse than ever before. Last I checked, the client was now chewing through over 20GB of RAM and more VRAM than even the highest graphics cards currently have. It struggles to get above 10 FPS with more than two clients within view. And even on the only base built into an asteroid, it’s a 5-6 fps slide-show. Over the weekend, people in the test pattern were talking about going to the store to get more RAM because 32GB is now the new sweet spot. They did release a follow-up “a” patch which they claim improved this somewhat. But so far, it was a big “nothing burger”.

“…for some reason performance is in the toilet on today’s build” – CIG Dev, AtV Oct 5 (recorded Oct 2nd), 2017

This and the networking – two very critical components for the game they’re trying to build – are the most contributing factors to the game facing insurmountable odds of success. They went for fidelity (see CryEngine), while completely ignoring other factors which will invariably hurt the game when added together. Those being networking, AI, UI, component entities, scripts etc. You know, all the stuff you have to mix together to build a “game”.

“Building games like this, you have to balance visual fidelity with gameplay and scope. You absolutely cannot have it all, and even if you do have it all, something will suffer. Either visual fidelity, or performance.” – Derek Smart, The July Blog, 2015

2) NETWORKING
Hey, remember back when CIG was making a bunch of promises to backers, about how they were going to “overhaul” the networking, that it would be vastly improved, that “serialized variables” (<— LOL!!) was the magic bullet? Yeah, me too. I’m still laughing.
Right now, in this build, you can’t get even 6-8 clients working without either a huge performance issue, the server or client crashing, or consistent connection problems. And this is an instanced game which has always struggled to host even 12 clients per instance. And they’re supposedly building an MMO in which, according to Erin and his halt-wit brother, Chris, they will end up with 1000 clients per instance. Yet, six years later, here we are.
They managed to make it worse in 3.0. Which isn’t at all surprising because, short of a complete overhaul of their networking layer, they’re never – ever – going to get to more than 12 clients per instance, let alone the “MMO” part. And even then, given the game’s design, unless they manage to pinch the Frontier guys who built the networking layer for Elite Dangerous, and then be happy with 32 clients per instance, they’re never – ever – getting an MMO out of this. Like ever.

3) PHYSICS
If you thought it was bad in 2.6.3, oh boy, you have no idea.
You know why CIG and some backers keep making a big deal out of “physics grids”, which is just nonsense? It’s because CIG made it a buzz term. Even though practically every single game that has vehicles, has managed to have one inside another while moving through 3D space. Heck, I did that over a decade ago as a “what if?”, when I was trying to fit a ground vehicle into the back of a shuttle which I wanted to fly somewhere else.
Everything from world/scene clipping, to ship and weapons and everything in between, it’s all very much still a broken mess. In fact, if you were playing 3.0 right now, and you didn’t know it, someone could tell you that it was 2.6.3. No kidding.
Here is an example which also goes to show what happens when CIG showcases stuff in a controlled environment, running local server side, in the editor etc – and then you send that same build out into the wild frontier that is a remote client-server multiplayer environment.
 

Nox bike parking inside a Cutlass (July 2017)

https://gfycat.com/g...wingedbutterfly
Nox bike parking inside a Cutlass (Evocati 3.0, Oct 2017)

(4? - Адвакатура, что тут должно быть?)

5) FLIGHT DYNAMICS
If you thought this was bad before; then guess what? They managed to somehow make it even worse. For starters, most of the ships don’t actually work properly. To the extent that you can’t even get into some of them, let alone move around without dying.
I should mention that back in July, one David Colson made an announcement on Twitter that he was joining the UK team. I have recently learned that he is now in charge of the flight dynamics & mechanics for the game. Yes, the guy who made this game, is now in charge of what is the most critical component of a $160 million game. Even before he was feet wet, he said this: “I learnt something today. MMOs are really hard to make. Don’t make MMOs. Thanks for listening“.
And remember the much touted ATC system which I wrote about here? Yeah, it’s just a voice recording (which doesn’t work all the time), and a vertical line over the launch pad. That’s it. All of it. Done.

6) SUBSUMPTION AI
Everything you’ve seen in ATV broadcasts, you can just ignore and disregard. This much touted AI is non-existent. As we saw in the horrid GC2017 presentation (read my troubling review), it’s just scripted NPCs hanging around, glitching, and doing nothing but taking up space and impacting performance even more. They’re no more important as “ambiance”, than the tables and chairs you see in the levels.
There’s really nothing there. Like at all.

7) MISSIONS
Nope, they don’t work either. Oh you want a mission, do you? Go ask Miles over there. Assuming he’s at the freaking table, and not floating off 20 feet away – glass in hand, while still somehow maintaining the same sitting posture as if he were at the table.
Interestingly, hours ago in ETF chat, CIG was admonishing testers for doing PvP, and trying to get missions. Nope, you can’t do that.

Miles Eckhart, Mission Giver And Hobo

8) PLANETARY TECH
The much touted “planetary tech” is as underwhelming as it is mindboggingly boring. And it’s buggy as hell. And barren. The one location, Levski, is an absolute slideshow. And that’s with just you and the environment. And that’s with two moons and an asteroid. So much for this plan.
As to the “seamless” space <-> planet transition nonsense we’ve been going on about these past months? Well, it’s sorta there, but how they actually did it, is for another article. If you’re guessing that I was right, then yeah – I am. Hint: There are POIs and instances involved. Also watch this. Amazing, isn’t it? They used that placeholder type logic to implement it.
A year ago today, this is a 50K upvoted thread on Reddit over proof-of-concept that is still nothing more than a pipe dream.

9) MOBIGLASS, ITEM 2.0, NEW UI, DELTA PATCHER
As boring as these topics appear to be, and are easy targets for criticism, I’m not even going to say anything at this point. Just wait and try these for yourself.
They did make good on a promise to develop a new delta patcher. You know, something we’ve had in PC gaming before you and I knew hairs could grow on our chest. And for the most part, it works. You no longer have to download a 30GB game with each new build. Don’t ask me why the first two 3.0 patches were still about 8GB though; I have no idea. We still don’t know yet if there are any ramifications to how they did it, because, you know, patch development is tough. In my experience, you could end up with old files pulled by a patcher, which then wreak havoc on a game install. Been there, done that; and my guess is seeing as CIG are adept at screwing up even the most mundane things, they’re likely to screw this up too.

10) IT’S BORING AF – AND THERE’S NOTHING THERE
There’s literally zero gameplay. They implemented a stats mechanic which, as backers have found out, you can actually die (your heart explodes) from running around too much. You know, the sort of mechanic that most FPS games have had for years now; but which actually works. Heck, I did that back in the first Universal Combat game. In 2002. And we have it in Line Of Defense. It. Just. Works. But in Star Citizen, they somehow manage to botch the most mundane things.
The patch notes are even more of the same nonsense. For starters, though this is a scaled down release, they jammed everything into that changelog, despite the fact that a good portion of that list is neither implemented in this build, let alone working to any extent. In fact, barely days after the Friday release, they released another “a” patch that, claimed performance fixes aside, fixes things that weren’t even listed as being bugged. And just last night, yet another “b” patch went out
And in that list, we’ve gone through each item and compared to what they released. As of now, 93% of that list isn’t actually in the 3.0 they released. Yes, I know, it’s absolutely unbelievable. Right now on ETF they’re telling testers not to do any combat PvP, missions etc because they’re supposed to be focus testing doors and lights. I’m guessing that the more Evocati engage this build, the more it will be obvious that it’s pure rubbish. Of course amid the outcry, they went and added more Evocati members to the list, which is just going to lead to even more leaks going forward.
There is absolutely NOTHING worth doing in 3.0. Seriously, NOTHING. When all backers get this, assuming they can get in a ship, fly to a planet, and enter it – the spectacle will be over in all of 20 mins. Guaranteed. Then, the streamers are going to be doing the same repetitive bullshit for weeks on end because, well, they have nothing.
It’s all still a glorified $160M tech demo that’s not even a vertical slice, if you can believe that.
What Evocati are now seeing in 3.0 is precisely the bane of these types of games. They’re dull and boring if you don’t have people to play with, or a robust AI and mission system for solo engagements.
And in 3.0, good luck finding anyone. There could be 8 clients in your instance, and you’d never see them. And when you do, there’s nothing to do because there is no “game”. Six years later.
Even Elite Dangerous suffers from this same thing, and that’s why those who don’t like it, call it boring. And the funny thing is, you could be peddling rubber dog shit for hours in ED, and get some “fun” from it because everything is just so well put together. Even in my Battlecruiser/Universal Combat games; I spent decades developing and improving revolutionary AI (check out my recent 6hr live stream) to alleviate this problem – specifically. Which is why I never even bothered to spend too much time with multiplayer for those games.

 

Сообщение отредактировал markel: 12 October 2017 - 7:58

[CHoh]

Ну и зачем сюда эту портянку?

Я мельком просмотрел, когда ты раньше линканул.

Говорю же, буду вживую смотреть сам, благо возможность такая есть.

[markel]

Ну и зачем сюда эту портянку?

Я мельком просмотрел, когда ты раньше линканул.

Говорю же, буду вживую смотреть сам, благо возможность такая есть.

чОрный пророк предупреждает, что с релизом чего-то под видом "3.0" рефаунд отменят. Мб за этим?

 

и я не вижу придирок к "мелочам", возможно ещё и по этому

Сообщение отредактировал markel: 12 October 2017 - 8:02

[CHoh]

Обоснование так себе.

На рефанд у меня было более чем достаточно времени. Как и у всех прочих в этой хейтерской теме (есть ведь ещё вторая тема, только немногие вменяемые, кому просто пофиг, там давно не пишут).

[markel]

Обоснование так себе.

вольному - воля

[Swan]

Ну конечно, мелкие придирки, всего-то бумажные кораблики с нулевой массой и инерцией в игре про космические кораблики. При чем уже который крупный показ так. Фигня, мелкая придирка.

[CHoh]

Я уже понял, что тебе нечего сказать, можешь только повторять за другими.

Не надо позориться дальше.

[markel]

Я уже понял, что тебе нечего сказать, можешь только повторять за другими.

Не надо позориться дальше.

Чох, вот нафиг переходить на личности?

Многотонные корыта у цига/рси действительно никогда не имели должной массы, что соответствующим образом сказывалось на их летной механике.

Сообщение отредактировал markel: 12 October 2017 - 8:12