441 ответов в теме

[Утреннее Дерево]

мб просто кто-то объелся грибным вареньем?)  

Ты говоришь так, как буд-то это что-то грустное.

Персональное мнение: Two Step тоже нужен в CSM7. Если его не будет, ВХ могут отойти на третий план по внесению изменений.

[Twiddle]

Или же нападки на фона носят характер традиционной американской предвыборной борьбы ?

А где у них стычка была? Тыкни носом плз, а то я чет пропустил.
зы Фон- фошызд?

[Fon Revedhort]

A. We have had several people on CSM 6 that were extremely difficult to work with. Usually they are just ignored both by the CSM and CCP.

A jew once told me it's a pleasure to be doing business with me.

Hint: he didn't start off by calling me a racist, unlike your member and then you. Which makes sense now, btw - CEO and members must be of the same ethical code, otherwise the corp won't even function

[Gramafon]

зы Фон- фошызд?

Примечательно то, что прежний цео монков (корпа в которой состоит Фон) был "Негр". Ну точно не 100% русский парень Ваня хотя и живет тут.

[glkudr]

Есть способ заработать на титан (без шибко крутого фита) за месяц, притом вручную без ботов и эксплойтов (правда, в 2-3-4 альта), и притом не только в ВХ, а еще и в нулях (хотя и не всех нулях), притом для этого не надо быть ЦЕО крупного подразделения и запускать лапу в чужой или общий валлет/ангар (т.е. способы честные и сточки зрения EULA, и с точки зрения порядочности). Единственно что требуется тратить на это немало личного времени, играя по часику в день ничего не выйдет.

Брателло, все гораздо проще, можно найти работу и купить его на ебей

Вот терь понятно почему (нуливики так против отмены локала в нулях). Им же станет неудобно фармить ботами. Так как боты эти будут выноситься постоянно. Ктото говорил что напишет бота на подскан и бла бла бла .. но по факту эту полная чуш, ибо подскан не 100500 ау.. , ах да и нажать его можно не 10 раз в секунду. Тобиш вероятность быть замеченым уже в разы уменьшаеться. А насчет ботов в вх очень я уж сомневаюсь что они есть а если и есть то нагнуть такова бота не составит труда.
все выше сказанное ИМХО.

Чушь пишется с мягким знаком, а бота поймать в разы труднее простого человека.

PS И да, я полетал по хайсекам, это ужас, сколько там развелось ботов... Раньше было меньше значительно.

[twostep]

A jew once told me it's a pleasure to be doing business with me.

Hint: he didn't start off by calling me a racist, unlike your member and then you. Which makes sense now, btw - CEO and members must be of the same ethical code, otherwise the corp won't even function

The fact that your defense is to tell me that "a jew" once didn't realize you were anti-Semitic is pretty telling.

Actually, if you read my first post, I asked you for a clarification on your views expressed in two older posts. I didn't start out by calling you a racist.

Also, I am not the CEO of AHARM. I was the CEO for a while, but stepped down. My corp certainly doesn't tolerate racism though.

[Dav]

Да у пиндосов ваще с этим строго :-) Назвал негра негром и ты уже расист. Хорошо что у нас этого говна (толерастии) нет. Пока нет.

Что касается CSM и Евы - а как отношение кандидата к толерастии влияет на его работу по коммуникации между ППЦ и игроками? Вообще зачем привносить реал в игру (расизм и т.п.)?

for Twostep:

Why to bring real life problems into the game? Who cares whether a man is racist or not in real life, if we're speaking about ingame CSM candidates. In EVE there are different problems.

Сообщение отредактировал Dav: 16 February 2012 - 17:10

[twostep]

Да у пиндосов ваще с этим строго :-) Назвал негра негром и ты уже расист. Хорошо что у нас этого говна (толерастии) нет. Пока нет.

Что касается CSM и Евы - а как отношение кандидата к толерастии влияет на его работу по коммуникации между ППЦ и игроками? Вообще зачем привносить реал в игру (расизм и т.п.)?

for Twostep:

Why to bring real life problems into the game? Who cares whether a man is racist or not in real life, if we're speaking about ingame CSM candidates. In EVE there are different problems.

A big part of being a CSM is talking to people. Some of those people might be Jewish, some might be black, some might be Chinese (DUST is being developed in China, remember). If you don't have respect for those people, they will be able to tell, and they will not listen to what you have to say.

If some player eve-mails Fon and suggests some feature, who can say if he will just decide they are of some different race and not pass on the request?

[Dav]

A big part of being a CSM is talking to people....

I assume, if they elect Fon to CSM, he will concentrate on game aspects, not on RL aspects. As for 'he will just decide not pass on the request' - perhaps we all have our personal preferences and dislikes. Some US corporations's members dislike russians a lot and do not hesitate to put it into words in the game chat. So all is relative.

[twostep]

I assume, if they elect Fon to CSM, he will concentrate on game aspects, not on RL aspects. As for 'he will just decide not pass on the request' - perhaps we all have our personal preferences and dislikes. Some US corporations's members dislike russians a lot and do not hesitate to put it into words in the game chat. So all is relative.

Perhaps. One other quick point is that, if elected, Fon will be seen as a representative of the Russian community. Do you think the non-Russians will have a better opinion of the Russian community if you elect someone like him? Do you think that would make people like Russians more?

I know that I, for one, would have a lower opinion of those that voted for him. I wouldn't hold it against the entire Russian EVE community, but I can't say that others would do the same.

[Fon Revedhort]

The fact that your defense is to tell me that "a jew" once didn't realize you were anti-Semitic is pretty telling.

He was wise enough to stay focused on business and that set him apart from brain-washed retards.

That's a nice example to follow.

Сообщение отредактировал Fon Revedhort: 16 February 2012 - 19:41

[Twiddle]

Тустеп. У нас другая страна. У нас нет негров. А еще, у нас 80 лет в стране существовал режим правления, который, в качестве одной из своих основ, называл братство и равенство всех людей.
Потому нам сложно в этом вопросе понять друг друга. У нас нет и никогда не было проблем националистического толка. (за исключением последних 20 лет, когда наша страна попала в зависимость к вашей, и национальные проблемы нам буквально навязали, в том числе усилиями ЦРУ непосредственно )
Мы фашистскую Германию победили вообщето, у нас было 15 республик в составе союза, с совершенно разным этническим составом. Странно было бы, если бы подобная проблема у нас была.

Нам не понять вот это вашей глубины вскипающего возмущения, при виде малейшего проявления нетолерантности по национальному признаку. У нас свободная страна. Ели человек не любит, скажем, геев в нашей стране- он может говорить это в слух. Призывать убивать геев- он не может, за это его накажут. А вот не любить имеет полное право.
Если Фон не любит евреев. Он имеет на это право. Я лично к евреям равнодушен. И я тоже в своем праве.
У нас, про ваш разгул воинствующей толерантности рассказывают анекдоты, наподобие: "следующим президентом США, станет чернокожая одноногая лесбиянка, страдающая синдромом дауна и больная СПИДом".
У вас нет таких анекдотов?

Сообщение отредактировал Twiddle: 16 February 2012 - 19:46

[Dav]

Perhaps. One other quick point is that, if elected, Fon will be seen as a representative of the Russian community. Do you think the non-Russians will have a better opinion of the Russian community if you elect someone like him? Do you think that would make people like Russians more?

I know that I, for one, would have a lower opinion of those that voted for him. I wouldn't hold it against the entire Russian EVE community, but I can't say that others would do the same.

It seems, you can't understand, that here people who will vote for Fon are not thining about his probable not tolerant views in RL. They will vote for his ideas for EVE, regardless of how does he relate to some kind of men. Most people come to EVE to relax after work or study, not to project their world view on ingame stuff (IMHO).

And when you're saying that you will lower your opinion on people who will vote for Fon - you're not positioning yourself from good side.

PS, an abstract example: not long ago in England there was a scandal in soccer world. Captain of national team John Terry was accused in racial stuff. Allegedly he said something about another black player (from pther team). That back man was weeping so loud, that John Terry was relegated from national team captain's position, he lost profitable contract with a sponsor, he occured problems with publishing his book (biography), etc. From russian point of view it's crazy and people do wrong. The rasist is not Terry, it's that black guy - cuz he makes a lot of troubles, he is the reason that English national team has lost the captain in 4 month before the Euro Cup! So the lesser attention is taken to such stuff - the better will be for all, so people will be able to concentrate on real problems (sport, work, studing, EVE, etc).

Сообщение отредактировал Dav: 16 February 2012 - 19:52

[Vozic]

You want to make WH as a second null space, but without the local, am I right?
No thanx, as far as I see from wh activities now - it's pretty spry space both for carebears and pvpers. Maybe it needs some slight changes like ones with POS structures (not actually the wh issue anyway) or more space for storing things, but not huge stuff generally for selfish organizations who still wants more.

Сообщение отредактировал Vozic: 16 February 2012 - 20:21

[twostep]

Тустеп. У нас другая страна. У нас нет негров. А еще, у нас 80 лет в стране существовал режим правления, который, в качестве одной из своих основ, называл братство и равенство всех людей.
Потому нам сложно в этом вопросе понять друг друга. У нас нет и никогда не было проблем националистического толка. (за исключением последних 20 лет, когда наша страна попала в зависимость к вашей, и национальные проблемы нам буквально навязали, в том числе усилиями ЦРУ непосредственно )
Мы фашистскую Германию победили вообщето, у нас было 15 республик в составе союза, с совершенно разным этническим составом. Странно было бы, если бы подобная проблема у нас была.

Нам не понять вот это вашей глубины вскипающего возмущения, при виде малейшего проявления нетолерантности по национальному признаку. У нас свободная страна. Ели человек не любит, скажем, геев в нашей стране- он может говорить это в слух. Призывать убивать геев- он не может, за это его накажут. А вот не любить имеет полное право.
Если Фон не любит евреев. Он имеет на это право. Я лично к евреям равнодушен. И я тоже в своем праве.
У нас, про ваш разгул воинствующей толерантности рассказывают анекдоты, наподобие: "следующим президентом США, станет чернокожая одноногая лесбиянка, страдающая синдромом дауна и больная СПИДом".
У вас нет таких анекдотов?

I somewhat understand the Russian views on race. I actually traveled to Russia in 1991 as a student, on an exchange trip. One of the other students was black, and got a lot of comments and curiosity. This is clearly an area where Russian and western cultures are very different. Note that I am not saying there aren't racist people in the US, god knows there are tons of them, but most educated people look down on racism. To me, it is a very clear indication that the person doesn't want to think for themselves, and just doesn't know the facts.

Also, on a personal level, I am half Jewish, and my girlfriend is black (from Cape Verde). That may be why you see me taking personal offense at some of the racist comments.

It seems, you can't understand, that here people who will vote for Fon are not thining about his probable not tolerant views in RL. They will vote for his ideas for EVE, regardless of how does he relate to some kind of men. Most people come to EVE to relax after work or study, not to project their world view on ingame stuff (IMHO).

And when you're saying that you will lower your opinion on people who will vote for Fon - you're not positioning yourself from good side.

PS, an abstract example: not long ago in England there was a scandal in soccer world. Captain of national team John Terry was accused in racial stuff. Allegedly he said something about another black player (from pther team). That back man was weeping so loud, that John Terry was relegated from national team captain's position, he lost profitable contract with a sponsor, he occured problems with publishing his book (biography), etc. From russian point of view it's crazy and people do wrong. The rasist is not Terry, it's that black guy - cuz he makes a lot of troubles, he is the reason that English national team has lost the captain in 4 month before the Euro Cup! So the lesser attention is taken to such stuff - the better will be for all, so people will be able to concentrate on real problems (sport, work, studing, EVE, etc).

I think this is a clear example of the cultural differences above. I doubt you would find very many people who would be willing to say it was in any way the black player's fault, which is what you appear to be saying here. In parts of the world where we have lots of different races living together, attitudes like that are what cause things like the US Civil War. Racism is a real problem for many people in the world. It means they can't play sports, get jobs, get into universities or even play EVE without someone insulting them. To ignore it, which is basically what is done in Russia, is a bad thing, and it will catch up with you in the end. By doing so, you are cutting off billions of people in the world who might otherwise want to move to Russia and do great things.

Edit: Re-reading this, I think it was wrong to say that all Russians are ignoring racism. That is clearly not the case, given the excellent responses in this thread. I'm sorry if I offended anyone by saying that.

You want to make WH as a second null space, but without the local, am I right?
No thanx, as far as I see from wh activities now - it's pretty spry space both for carebears and pvpers. Maybe it needs some slight changes like ones with POS structures (not actually the wh issue anyway) or more space for storing things, but not huge stuff generally for selfish organizations who still wants more.

I think you are completely misunderstanding me. I love wormhole space the way it is, and don't want CCP to make major changes, like the proposed wormhole stabilizer. My major goals are to get POSes redone, so people can dock and have private storage, and to make fighting the sleepers more interesting and random.

Сообщение отредактировал twostep: 18 February 2012 - 2:06

[Dav]

This is clearly an area where Russian and western cultures are very different.
...
I think this is a clear example of the cultural differences above...

Yeap. So once you began to converse with Russian part of WH citizents on this forum - please, keep it in mind. Russians are not racists. But our point of view on this problem is completle different. And the most different is, that we don't project (or at least we're not trying to) RL preferences into a game. EVE is virtual reality, races are Amarr, Caldari, etc. So what the point of talking about RL races here..

Also, on a personal level, I am half Jewish, and my girlfriend is black (from Cape Verde). That may be why you see me taking personal offense at some of the racist comments.

That's fair enough.

I doubt you would find very many people who would be willing to say it was in any way the black player's fault, which is what you appear to be saying here.

If such would happen in US (John Terry's accident), I have no doubt that the white guy will be annihilated by public opinion, etc. Cuz in US not retarged white man with heterosexual orientation is the most possible victim of racial scandals. Who will blame a black man for racial statement? Nobody even will think to do that. Cuz from your point of view the 'rasism' is when the white guy offends the 'not white guy'. Am I not correct? If such case (same exampe about Terry) would happen in Russia - Terry would remain the captain till the coach decides to change something, cuz the sport and the team (national) is 100 times more important than some weeping looser.

Сообщение отредактировал Dav: 16 February 2012 - 21:30

[twostep]

Yeap. So once you began to converse with Russian part of WH citizents on this forum - please, keep it in mind. Russians are not racists. But our point of view on this problem is completle different. And the most different is, that we don't project (or at least we're not trying to) RL preferences into a game. EVE is virtual reality, races are Amarr, Caldari, etc. So what the point of talking about RL races here..

But my point is that you guys will not just be judged by Russians, but by people from all over the world. If they see that you elect someone that is clearly racist, that will effect their opinions of you. It isn't just the Russian views on racism that matter here...

If such would happen in US (John Terry's accident), I have no doubt that the white guy will be annihilated by public opinion, etc. Cuz in US not retarged white man with heterosexual orientation is the most possible victim of racial scandals. Who will blame a black man for racial statement? Nobody even will think to do that. Cuz from your point of view the 'rasism' is when the white guy offends the 'not white guy'. Am I not correct? If such case (same exampe about Terry) would happen in Russia - Terry would remain the captain till the coach decides to change something, cuz the sport and the team (national) is 100 times more important than some weeping looser.

Not true. It is less common, but certainly non-white people being racist happens in the US, and it sometimes gets the exact same news media reaction as racism in the other direction.

[Fon Revedhort]

To ignore it, which is basically what is done in Russia, is a bad thing, and it will catch up with you in the end. By doing so, you are cutting off billions of people in the world who might otherwise want to move to Russia and do great things.

Like turning Russians into miscegenated bastards? No, thanks. We don't want this. Our occupation regime is already doing just that and it's bound to fall pretty soon.