441 ответов в теме

[Naimas Alvares]

zadolbali

Зэд, это не про нациков. Меня лично Ту Степ очень порадовал своей работой в прошлом году - он проявлял активности побольше цсмщиков из основного состава, участвовал в большинстве обсуждений (даже в протоколах это видно). И часть голосов я с радостью отдал бы за него. Но когда начались наезды на Фона по понятной теме, Ту Степ зачем-то подключился. Лично мне непонятно нафига вроде бы адекватный товарищ пытается смешивать реал и игру - это немного расстроило.

[Dav]

Да в том-то и дело, что не надо путать реал и игру. Мне лично пофиг, какие там взгляды на негров или евреев у кандидата в CSM, лишь бы он был активен в плане продвижения идей для их реализации разрабами CCP. Думаю, многие так же считают.

А кандидат twostep так не считает

Сообщение отредактировал Dav: 17 February 2012 - 11:51

[Утреннее Дерево]

Да в том-то и дело, что не надо путать реал и игру. Мне лично пофиг, какие там взгляды на негров или евреев у кандидата в CSM, лишь бы он был активен в плане продвижения идей для их реализации разрабами CCP. Думаю, многие так же считают.

А кандидат twostep так не считает

Вполне возможно, что взгляды Два Шаг на вопрос рас, полов и других увлечений ИРЛ есть суть принципиальная позиция. Это его право. Примешивание своих политико-социальных взглядов к игре про любимые космические корабли - одна из попыток привлечь дополнительные голоса там, где ингейм программа будет освистана.
Фактически, больше политики, чем реальной игры.

Сообщение отредактировал Утреннее Дерево: 17 February 2012 - 12:23

[Ali On]

наверное, потому что csm, это прежде всего работа людей с людьми, что повышает приоритет личностных качеств. И это общение происходит в реале, а не в игре, да? ) И продвигать идеи надо среди людей. Если ты им не нравишься, вероятность продвижения твоих идей резко понижается.
Вроде бы ясно излагаю.

[Утреннее Дерево]

наверное, потому что csm, это прежде всего работа людей с людьми, что повышает приоритет личностных качеств. И это общение происходит в реале, а не в игре, да? ) И продвигать идеи надо среди людей. Если ты им не нравишься, вероятность продвижения твоих идей резко понижается.
Вроде бы ясно излагаю.

Сажать людей на кол за экономические преступления - радикально, но невыгодно с точки зрения компенсации материального ущерба. Если такую идею выдвигает кандидат, который близок тебе по взглядам на однополые браки, и ты эту идею принимаешь, как свою, то ты будешь "опускать" идею другого кандидата, имеющего кардинально противоположный взгляд на проблему компенсации материального ущерба экономических преступлений - выполнение осуждённым работ, приносящих прибыль.
Для дела, в целом, второе решение будет единственно правильным, но ты не сможешь его воспринять, потому что симпатизируешь человеку, а не пользе для общего дела.

Сообщение отредактировал Утреннее Дерево: 17 February 2012 - 12:28

[Ali On]

Утрировано до абсурда, но таки да, именно так в жизни всё и происходит, так как люди не роботы, есть решения которые принимаются в ущерб прибыли из-за личных интересов/тараканов/симпатий.

[twostep]

наверное, потому что csm, это прежде всего работа людей с людьми, что повышает приоритет личностных качеств. И это общение происходит в реале, а не в игре, да? ) И продвигать идеи надо среди людей. Если ты им не нравишься, вероятность продвижения твоих идей резко понижается.
Вроде бы ясно излагаю.

This is exactly correct. I can tell you from talking on Skype, that both other CSMs and CCP do not find Fon's racism to be appealing. I think that makes them less likely to listen to him.

Anyway, back to talking about *my* candidacy.

zadolbali uzhe pro nacikov.

all I want is
-more random wh to the 00
-some new game mechanic in wspace.

What sort of new game mechanics? Also, we find 0.0 wormholes a lot, what class wormhole do you live in?

[Fon Revedhort]

This is exactly correct. I can tell you from talking on Skype, that both other CSMs and CCP do not find Fon's racism to be appealing.

Ah, so you start abusing your current CSM position to stir it up even further? How nice of you. And it surely makes a lot of sense to gossip on those unrelated topics. Who needs to discuss EVE anyway?

And then they say we're biased on jews

[Dav]

for Twostep:

Isn't it that common case, I was talking about? One man mentioned someting about Fon Revedhort one time (a rumor that he allegedly said something about jews), then another man expanded that into drama, other men joined and so the chain was formed Now you're talking even about CCP won't listen him. LOL. What next - public punishment with guillotine?

That's how this works, isn't it? Whisper proper words about a man who needs to be removed from the way, and then the public negative opinion will raise as a snowball running from the hill.

This is so stupid...

Сообщение отредактировал Dav: 17 February 2012 - 16:33

[Clancy]

Twostep, and so you are making reality out of yout beliefs. Good work, true politician's one. Metagaming and stuff. What the reasons for me to believe thet in CSM you'll be working on EVE, instead of other members of CSM' discreditation?

[Psihius]

twostep
I have to congratilate you on getting trolled at this forum your first time. I should say that this one was quite light trolling, very gentle I'd say. But be warned - trolling here is a sport and every topic gets it trolls on whatever reason and direction. It's just how it works here. What you have to learn is to avoid feeding the trolls and ignore what they write.
Your main error was getting into discussing non-eve discussion. You had to ignore any part that was not related directly to your candidacy and views on the game (or at least stop answering to the questions when things gone messy).

I don't like Fon myself very much - I just don't like his attitude and do not share his views on the game. Usually we do not care even if he would be a skinhead - as long as he keeps that to himself and does not impose that on others. As long as people understand that- we don't give a f**c. What matters - if a person can be reasoned with and compromise. The thing with Fon is that from my expirence of interacting with his is that he doesn't like to compromise and thinks too high of himself - so I just don't interact with him. But there are many people who are just thinking of themselfes too much (and much more) - that makes such things like this racial stuff spilling all over the forum.

There is a 0.0 political forum section - you will be horrified of the things that happen there, it's just plain maddness there and it takes toul on people who actually post there. Conflicts between people spill out of that part pretty quickly to other forum parts and people get bans. This is what happened here, so you should really re-think your position and if you want to understand Fon - talk to him directly, discuss things. You are on this forum only a few weeks (maybe reading it more) and unaware of the inner relationships of the people here. Usually our W-Space section is quite and harmfull and people here will listen to reason. And most of us from the russian WH community are grown up people with work, kids and the game for us is the game - we rearly mix in-game politics and actions with the actual persons. I can get ganked by someone in game and just laught it off here on the forum with the person who did it.

I've tried to stay out of the discussion about the racial differences and, well, I failed. So jumping in, but this will be my personal view of a russian-speaking person.
What many, including me, do not like about the americans and ther affinity with the racicm theme is that we see it just as a ridicilous excuse to accuse people of racism if someone tells that he doesn't like that guy/girl and they happen to be different races and that can be seen as racism. Sure, the black-white people relationship in US is historically very drammatic and it's quite different of the rest of the world. But we see the same racial thing going on with the muslims (largely in Europe). And what most see is that toleration got countries like Germany and France into some serious shit and makes us in a sence happy that we do not have such things here. We have a saying: Don't go into someonce monastery with our own rules. If someone of different race and belief wants to live in other country with different culture, beliefs and traditions - he should accept that you will have to change some things in yourself too. It doesn't mean you have to abandon your tradition, belife, etc. The person should understand that it is he, who chosen to live in the other society, not the society chose to live with him.
The great example of this is how muslims go to live in Europe and start things like "They offend me because they have a dog! My bellife is that it's dirty animal! These people should restrict my contact bla bla bla". And they do not learn language. And they think it's ok for their women to dress into paranja and walk on the streets, and many things more. Like the Jordge Carlin says "F**C YOU!". It's they, who offend me by comming to my country and demanding that their belifes should be respected, that I should not have a dog and so on. Want to live near me? Adapt, make compromises. No one will say anything about you reading the coran, praying 5 (or 7) times a day, not eating the pork and beliving your wife should whear the paranja. It's his buissiness and untill he keeps it private - he will be accepted. His wife can think of some more appropriate clothes that do good job in hiding her, but not standing out in the crowed as much as she does in that black something wheird. And it's absolutelly insane (I've just recently read that it's quite common now in some europe countries) to demand that you should have your waiter/manager/etc to be male/female because by the laws of the society they have lived before it is demanded.
Many russian speaking adapt to the new community abroad and don't really stand out from it.

So here you go. That is an absolutly different view on the subject, probably will be hard to accept. But I can think of a reason why we don't give much attention on racism and related issues. It's the history of Europe. We had so many wars and different nationalities mixed so much during the eons that if you dig into almost anybodies history - you will find that there are tons of different nationalities mixed in. I'm myself am 50% ucranian, 25% russian and 25% latvian. Was born and live in latvia. Both latvian and russian are my native languages (I spoke both since started to talk) and know English quite good as you can see. Many of us in this reagion are like that (thanks to USSR). We are a mix of different nationalities and many of us just don't care about the nationality because of that.

I'm not really willing to continue the discussion and others should stop it too. I maybe will answer to some concrete questions if will be asked, but keep it important.

2all
Народ, давайте закрываем тему расизма, национализма и.т.д.
Если кто-то прочитает выше написанное и захочет что-то возразить/дополнить/обсудить - либо делайте это очень коротко (не факт что буду отвечать), или давайте выносите в "Обо всём" или пишите в приват.
Ещё немного, и модераторы просто закроют/зачистят топик за нарушение правил форума. Так что хватит, а тролей просьба покинуть наш уютный WH уголок.

Сообщение отредактировал Psihius: 17 February 2012 - 19:03

[DarkPhoenix]

You're missing point - it's not trolling. I bet most of EVE players here are tired of the RL politiks - it seeps out of 'general offtopic' subforums too much even in such thematic subforums like devblogs or w-space.

Feeding and encouraging such discussion was an extremely bad move anyway. Your discussion of RL politiks with gamedev was even worse, tho.

Nazis, US dept of state, Putin - who is it? As eve player, i don't want to hear a shit about it.

Сообщение отредактировал DarkPhoenix: 17 February 2012 - 19:33

[twostep]

may be better is to add second static to 00 in c6 and remove it from c2.
movable wh. bring it back.
new ship for gas harvesting.
two scripts to "ship scanner" to scan ships and pods.
random npc spawns on wormhole.
less agility to "interdiction nulifier" sub.
npc spawn in ladar\gravi rebuild to random time from one minute to one hour.
brig back "wormhole collapsed"

this is for example.

I'd like to see more dual static wormholes, not less, which is why i suggested giving C4s or C5s dual statics. More connections means more chances to surprise someone and kill them.
I don't know why CCP got rid of movable wormholes, they didn't tell me they were going to do it.
I'd love to see ships for gas harvesting, hacking and archeology.
Do you mean the directional scanner? Are you asking for more checkboxes like the "Use Overview settings" one?
Yes to random npcs on wormholes
Good idea. I will raise that with CCP
I'd be a little worried about what that would do to the supply of gas, and the prices of T3s. Or did you mean just randomize the initial spawn?
Not sure I understand what you are saying with "brig back "wormhole collapsed"", can you explain further?

Twostep, and so you are making reality out of yout beliefs. Good work, true politician's one. Metagaming and stuff. What the reasons for me to believe thet in CSM you'll be working on EVE, instead of other members of CSM' discreditation?

Well, you should go on what the other CSMs have said. I quoted many of them in my eve-o thread here. Remember, I am running for re-election, and I am very happy to run on the record of what I have gotten done in the last year. I fought hard to get you corp bookmarks, I had a big hand in ship rebalancing, I was the primary voice asking for shields to work properly when you get ships from an SMA or jump into a Pulsar. While some of those would have happened without me, I think my work brought them to you earlier than you would have otherwise had them.

I'm going to stay away from the talk about Fon and racism now. It is a distraction, and has nothing to do with *my* campaign.

[Naimas Alvares]

Nazis, US dept of state, Putin - who is it? As eve player, i don't want to hear a shit about it.

It's all about politics Phoenix, sad but true... I thought i played a game, just a game... but csm and two step exactly are playing another game with RL problems in it and i don't like it. So, all my votes for Fon now! Just for their fun Wake up guys, it's another universe with another people. If someone wants me to play such game (with RL problems) - i will say "fuck off guys"! I'm playing game where Fon is just a good pilot, good amarrian pilot! Not more and not less!

Fon for CSM!!!

[Clancy]

Well, you should go on what the other CSMs have said. I quoted many of them in my eve-o thread here. Remember, I am running for re-election, and I am very happy to run on the record of what I have gotten done in the last year. I fought hard to get you corp bookmarks, I had a big hand in ship rebalancing, I was the primary voice asking for shields to work properly when you get ships from an SMA or jump into a Pulsar. While some of those would have happened without me, I think my work brought them to you earlier than you would have otherwise had them.

I'm going to stay away from the talk about Fon and racism now. It is a distraction, and has nothing to do with *my* campaign.

thanks. I'll hope this 'accident' was merely that, accident, and it 'll not backfire your eligibilty. I for one particularly glad to see shield fixes and corp bookmarks, but, please, don't allow returning of movable wormholes due to its being simply illogical. Or, at the edge of logic I may assume some 'wormhole distortion generator', randomly moving WH around with 10 minutes cycle of such module )

Сообщение отредактировал Clancy: 17 February 2012 - 19:57

[Naimas Alvares]

I'm going to stay away from the talk about Fon and racism now. It is a distraction, and has nothing to do with *my* campaign.

Really? Can't believe it! Why do you tell about you deals in game/csm, but need to discuss Fon's views in RL? Why not to discuss his csm program or ingame progress? You are so cool Two Step, you made a lot of good things ingame, but Fon is racist
Incredible discussion.

PS: my english is not good especially today, i'm sorry. It's friday - my russian readers will understand it.

Сообщение отредактировал Naimas Alvares: 17 February 2012 - 19:56

[RozenKo]

Я могу сказать то что вы не понимаете: если всю эту фигню с Фоном раскрутят/всплывёт в csm (а это 100% всплывёт), его идеи просто пойдут лесом, и его никто не будет слушать, какими бы сложными не были его взгляды на жизнь, discuss?

Ну и да, ему пофиг на вх в отличие от, поэтому непонятен ваш набег сюда )

Ну как бы вам слово говорить за других не давали и никогда не дадут. А же высказал свое мнение. И мне как-то пофиг, что там у Фона. Его видение евы с моим никак не совпадает.
И ВХ вообще трогать не надо. Там своё пвп и пве,что Тустеп, как я понял, хочет поменять