1257 ответов в теме

[Dfire]

Даже не интересно читать было...

[rossi1985]

Why i disbanded Rebellion at the time of DRF attack
And all the story

Be patient. I guess it will be long and pretty hard to read and understand topic.

First of all, i want to say that i have strong position on what i did and im absolutly sure that was right.
Let me explain it.

Rebellion was founded by me as an alliance for fun. Having fun in game was main idea. We never wanted to have much space, a lot of moons and isks. I never wanted.
Becouse all this for us would mean a lot of responsibility to our allies that we couldnt have becouse of our casual gameplay idea - "fun tonight", which means we dont like CTA much.
I also knew that having a lot of money income can bring russian alliance to the situation like we had in Red Alliance, before i leave it - ebay and greed.
So we had a lot of roamings in Syndicate, then moved to Curse, had some fun in epic battles in VNGJ etc, had some fun in roamings. But Curse became booring and we had not good relations with other russian alliances there - as we liked to roam them ).
I didnt want to be like on Atlas side while roaming RA/XiX space, so zapawork offered us to live in Delve/Querious on nice terms with GS. I agreed and we moved.
Lots of fun was there - roamings on BS, hacs, bcs in Stain, to HED-GP and around. We had nice gangs up to 100-120 ppl in Delve, like we had in Curse and VNGJ.
GS gave us 1 prom and 1 dyspro moon and 3BK station with that constellation - so we have some space to jew and we could pay sov bills, we built ZAU station and we had reimbursments. That was very good time.
Then, u all know what happened - claim drop etc - i never was angry at GS about that.
I desided that now we should go to Venal - as we were in Syndicate, Curse and Delve. Nice place to live for members and some targets to shoot - WN.
At that point i was the leader of Rebellion for 2 years and before that i was in RA since 2005 year - 3 years. So i was a little tired of leading alliance in the way i lead it before.
I offered to change structure to make FCs doing FCing and me doing planning, diplomacy etc. Members refused as they always thought that leader must do FC. Thats pretty russian view on alliance structure - "Warlords do rule the alliance".
So i put DrKrom4eg as most active and neutral to all corps FC on position of leader and leave it.
Then the things start to change in alliance.

To be short: Rebellion became an instrument in leadership hands to make ISKs of technetium moons.
The only thing alliance aimed - was getting more and more moons, getting more income.
I should say that i was offered to live in Geminate by NC before we moved to Venal - i refused, i knew that it only will lead to lots of CTAs and not much fun for members as we wanted.
The alliance step by step moved to the direction of Red Alliance.

Now the drama (ive never posted it before somewhere):

1rst:
Rebellion had like 8-11 tech moons for like 7-9 months. Average price of tech for that period is 65k per 1 technetium. 72000 pcs of it from every moon per month.
Lets count like a minimum 7 months x 9 moons x 72000 x 65000 ISK = 294b ISK.
Also we have 2b income monthly from ECCON and i dont know how much 2 citizen corps payed.

What we had:
We had format ship compensations (not 100%, like 50% coverage) that only started after we had like 7 moons. It was abaddon, guardians and dictors. Only on CTA...and CTA was about to defend or attack moons.
Not much was spent there tbh.
Whats else u will ask?
We had a corp in Rebellion that built scarriers for us, members pays 12b, alliance wallet pays 2.5b to that corp. Sick, i guess, why not to built it just as it is? Alright, like 15 scarriers were built in that way. ~40b
How much money do u need to fuel thouse tech moons and several regroup poses, buy some poses? Not much. Count it yourself.

OK, but then...corps pays themselves for claim, corps pays for claim structures (like ihubs etc), corps need to have regroup pos in every system, corps need to get cynojammer online with their money if DRF attacked (it attacked before and we put it online).
No dreadnoughts reimb. But we used it to attack tech moons. Even in Delve where income was much less alliance wallet made dread reimbs, alliance wallet payed for claim with all the bridges, bought all poses and claim structures, we build outpost where alliance wallet gave 5b.
Should i say we didnt have scarriers reimb at all? Even no several bills to start with.
And i gave to DrKrom4eg 5b to start with it in Venal (in Curse we had nothing and had 100+ man fleets).

You want more?
I have MORE.

The man who ruled the tech moons (AMENATL) while doing it bought a character with a titan - SokolD - i personally managed that transfer and i know everything about it. Money was loaned from Krutota and alliance wallet.
Lots of accounts were bought and lots of money spent by him i guess somewhere...
DrKrom4eg bought titan with a char and have 7 accounts payed from ally wallet and so on.
I have no proofs that he took money from alliance wallet.
But i have another proof. Be patient guys, i have some more drama here. )) u'll like it, hell yeh.

As i back to eve i started to play some and make RUS stronger. After DrKrom4eg bought the titan he arraged a council meeting. Here is our conversation with him in ICQ
Russian (to proof) - English translation.

DrKrom4eg (19:35:57 30/01/2011)
ку, будешь седня на совете? - hi, will you be on council (meeting) today?

DrKrom4eg (19:39:27 30/01/2011)
все прочел, кк -//he read my post that i wont be able// already read, ok

daroh (22:36:18 30/01/2011)
Кромчик а там чото важное будет? - krom, is there anything important there?

DrKrom4eg (22:36:23 30/01/2011)
да - yes

daroh (22:36:32 30/01/2011)
блин а я думал спать лечь пораньше - fuck i thought to go sleep earlier

DrKrom4eg (22:36:40 30/01/2011)
о том куда б нам поехать - about where we should go (means go with an alliance)

daroh (22:36:40 30/01/2011)
а чо там такова важного то - whats important there?

daroh (22:36:50 30/01/2011)
а чо тут не сидица? ) - anything wrong with this place?)

daroh (22:37:02 30/01/2011)
или нас выселять собрались? ) - or someone wanna make us get out?

DrKrom4eg (22:39:06 30/01/2011)
ну да мб - yeh may be

DrKrom4eg (22:39:15 30/01/2011)
ну меня заебал радужный наптрейн этот - i fucking tired of that rainbow naptrain

DrKrom4eg (22:39:19 30/01/2011)
он всех заебал - everyone fucking tired

DrKrom4eg (22:39:23 30/01/2011)
вернее многих - to be clearly - many ppl

daroh (22:39:42 30/01/2011)
а чо он не так делает этот наптрейн? ) - whats wrong with the naptrain?

daroh (22:39:47 30/01/2011)
или целей чтоль нету? - or not much targets?

DrKrom4eg (22:39:49 30/01/2011)
целей меньше - less targets (here)

daroh (22:39:58 30/01/2011)
так надо воевать на чужой территории потому что - coz we need to fight on hostile territory

DrKrom4eg (22:40:00 30/01/2011)
та блобы везде - bobls everywhere

daroh (22:40:01 30/01/2011)
а не на своей - not on ours

daroh (22:40:15 30/01/2011)
блобы везде итак - blobs everywhere anyways

daroh (22:40:29 30/01/2011)
что один наптрейн что другой - no matter whats naptrain

daroh (22:40:49 30/01/2011)
и что ты хочешь все луны отдать нахуй и съехать? - and so u want all moons to give fucking out and get out?

DrKrom4eg (22:40:56 30/01/2011)
гг - hehe

DrKrom4eg (22:41:07 30/01/2011)
была инфа, что дрф будут атаковать геминат - there was an info that DRF will attack Geminate

DrKrom4eg (22:41:39 30/01/2011)
Если дрф будут атаковать геминат, я не хочу снова подрывать свою жопу по 5 часов лагобоев ) - if DRF will attack Geminate, i dont want again go break my ass for 5 hours of lag battels

daroh (22:41:41 30/01/2011)
ну пусть нападают на геминат и чо? вот и цели будут - so let them attack geminte, whats wrong with it? there will be targets then

DrKrom4eg (22:41:45 30/01/2011)
ну не сейчас по крайней мере - not now at least (about breaking ass in lags)

daroh (22:42:40 30/01/2011)
ну территории и луны надо защищать чо - territories and moons needs the defending

daroh (22:42:52 30/01/2011)
а ты думал как ) - or you thought other way? )

DrKrom4eg (22:43:04 30/01/2011)
уехать нахуй куда-нить в курс\дельв - get fcuking out somewhere to curse/delve

DrKrom4eg (22:43:04 30/01/2011)
) - )

daroh (22:43:35 30/01/2011)
ты заебался чтоле или чо - u tired or what?

DrKrom4eg (22:44:01 30/01/2011)
от блобов и кта - from blobs and ctas - yes

DrKrom4eg (22:44:09 30/01/2011)
хочу побольше целей и смены обстановки - want more targets and change the conditions

daroh (22:44:26 30/01/2011)
а как же суперкары? - what about scarriers?

daroh (22:44:35 30/01/2011)
а чо скажет наптрейн? - what naptrain will say?

DrKrom4eg (22:44:51 30/01/2011)
ты поговоришь с гунами и будем строить у них - u will talk to goons and we will build in their space

DrKrom4eg (22:45:04 30/01/2011)
а чо наптрейн - whats naptrain (means, naptrain doesnt matter/nothing will be wrong with naptrain or smth)

----

I "liked" how he wants to use my friendship with GS to ask me for building things in GS territory...
Alright, everything is ok with have more fun in Curse/Delve.
BUT. Members have their homes now in Geminate, members fought for it and for thouse moons, and now he bought titan, got money and wanna go have some fun and stay leader?
He wants to drop sov, drop standings with NC, sell moons (and get even more money). He mentioned it to the council - there were a lot of Rebellion corp ceos there. I dont lie.
Some ceos liked it, some not. But i started to understand all the situation in alliance and arraged a meeting with Arrkann and amnesium to talk about joining GS.
Vile rat can proof it - i wanted to join 1rst, i talked to him i had a meeting with Arrkann (Sun Lin Tong CEO) and amnesium (Lights OUT CEO), but instead of joining GS with me they forced me to try change situation.
If i failed they agreed to alliance disbanding.
I wrote alliance structure where FC do FCing, get paid with free scaps, full reimbs, even GTCs. Also there should be a clear wallet income/outcome for all corp ceos - alliance wallet driven by 3 ppl, all money goes to scap building/reimbs and wallet should have more then 50b at a time - so everything should be spent on progress. I'm leader of alliance and do politics, planing and orginizing, Arrkann and Krutota finance directors who have acces to ally wallet.
It was posted in Russian, i can repost it here if you need it.
Firstly i came with it to several corp CEOs and they agreed that DrKrom4eg isnt good leader and his way of leading isnt good - that was Beskost (ECCON CEO) and Ton'ko (Neaga CEO) - he said he dont care what will be done but my words is fair and he agreed with them.
Also everyone said that they dont want DrKrom4eg to stop doing CTAs.
I have all the logs, all in russian you know, but i can post it if u need em to proof my words. Too much to translate there.
So i went to DrKrom4eg and showed our view to him. Firstly he agreed but had some terms:
1. 25b (he owe it to someone, guess he wanted to get it from moon selling...or just want it).
2. pay for 7 accounts at least for 2 months (5b) before he buy a bot
3. full reimbs t1/t2/t3

OK, i agreed. Posted this structure to the council forum, TheLexa/ws26 (Far East CEO) agreed and some others.
I posted a council meeting.
Several hours before the meeting DrKrom4eg came to me. I guess he spoke with AMENATL and some others, may be he thought i wont give him 25b or smth.
He starts to push on me that he wont lead CTAs (but have everything other he wants), that i will need to lead CTAs or nothing will be right.
He said he isnt rly tired and Curse/Delve isnt rly better (lol!), he will do CTAs and so on...
OK, i asked if he will make everything what we wanted but under his leadership. - He said yes.
I posted that info and didnt go to council meeting as i didnt thought it was nessesary now.
On that meeting i was called a shit by DrKrom4eg, several corp CEOs added their voices to his.
After that there was a post in council where several questions were asked by ppl who still dont agree with DrKrom4eg and AMENATL:
1. Where is alliance wallet?
2. How much is in alliance wallet?
No answers were made, but i had info directly from DrKrom4eg as we talked before - 8b was alliance wallet and AMENATL owe 15b to it. Lol, right? Do i need any proofs after that where alliance money was spent? I guess with such wallet balance - no.

Some council members inc me asked to give away moons to corps so they will give back 90% of moon income to ally wallet and take only 10% for fuel, regroup poses etc.
DrKrom4eg refused, said moons will be in AMENATL hands, sick calculations were made that he will receive 17,5% of income and so on.
After that nothing to clear wallet income were made, lol and stupid answers were made where thouse billons were spent etc.
I was called a "paper CEO" by DrKrom4eg and also that i made almost nothing for the alliance, but he did much more then me (lol). LoL even more - noone told him he is not right.
Alright, if members thinks that DrKrom4eg isnt tired as he mentioned, that he made a lot, and i made nothing - if they agree to be his pets getting and defending his own income and backing him in it.
Then, i guess, they should create their own alliance, formed by themselves and forged in fire, not like it was (solved diplomacy by Daroh, solved place to live by Daroh etc).
Also, i thought to give them a gift - an idea to live, not disband or leave Geminate and go to Curse. A situation to proof they can fight for that is they want to be and for thoues who they like.
The alliances are always must be forged in fire - it makes them stronger. (RA, BOB, GS, AAA) And if there wont be such situation like i made to them - there wont be new alliance driven by hate and rage, rebellion just die or leave or disbands at all...or stay where it is and root more.
And what will be there if RUS just leave and disband? Guess NC wont be happy with that anyways. Guess there will be attack anyways, it will be solved very fast and relations in rebellion will remain.
But if u think a little bit forward you will understand that by that move NC will receive a strong ally (already made and already posts by Ton'ko that they have great morale - proof of my plan), that will have history by defending their home and they will have their homes that they fought for (Geminate will be under NC 100%, i planned it too (lol) - NC coalition is much powerfull then DRF and friends - i know that).

As i said before. I have strong position that im right. I can proof, i have logs, i have council forum to show to GS leaders.

Hope you will understand what i did. I know that simple analysis of event loudly shouts to your mind that im traitor. But try to get my point of view. Im not asking a lot.

PS Guess all that losses in that war wont be on my head. DRF attack isnt planned by me, there was attack anyways. Hope there will be some wisdom about it.

[backtrace]

Даешь копипасту!

Не-е, сюда ещё рано. Хотя, за +10 репы...

P.S. Ах, долго торговался, лол.

Сообщение отредактировал backtrace: 15 February 2011 - 15:33

[GUVD]

Даже не интересно читать было...

Перекинь сюда что ли, хотя бы на английском, что бы нам тоже стало неинтересно чиать..
edit: пока писал уже опубликовали... будем почитать ...

Сообщение отредактировал GUVD: 15 February 2011 - 15:34

[diegomath]

Мне на тебя покласть )

не поверишь, и мне на тебя.

[greg2008]

Не-е, сюда ещё рано. Хотя, за +10 репы...

P.S. Ах, долго торговался, лол.

Ха-Ха!

[Chupacabra]

Некоторые выводы - наптрейн с СК тока для того, чтобы купить за 7 месяцев 2 титана и 25б из валлета куда-то исчезло. Я так понял?

[Ank Burov]

Ебай же!

[Батька Дамаг]

Ну, собственно, как обычно. Барья деруцца - а лбы у холопов трещщат)

[Tonakien]

Очень хорошее чтиво кстате. Я советую всем прочесть.
Очень много, в словах Дароха, отсылок к постулату "Я хотел как лучше для корпораций альянса".

Задайтесь вопросом почему почти все корпы бывшего ребеллиона в новом альянсе и по тихому проклинают этого "вестника справедливости"?

Сообщение отредактировал Tonakien: 15 February 2011 - 15:56

[Thread]

очевидно, потому что ИМ НЕ СКАЗАЛИ ПРАВДЫ! А тем, кому сказали НЕ СЛУШАЛИ!

WE DIDN'T LISTEN!

I have no proofs that he took money from alliance wallet.

а об этот камень, о царь Гарох, разбивается вся твоя копипаста.

Сообщение отредактировал Thread: 15 February 2011 - 16:00

[Liteik]

одного не пойму, если ДрКромчег такой плохой и сидел на техноигле, то нафига он собирался валить из венала/жемината в курс/дельве?

(или я что то неправильно прочитал?)

[alexeypro]

одного не пойму, если ДрКромчег такой плохой и сидел на техноигле, то нафига он собирался валить из венала/жемината в курс/дельве?

(или я что то неправильно прочитал?)

Видимо сработала ситуация из разряда " Набрать полные карманы и свалить " .. в крайнем случае судя по прочитаному.

[Tonakien]

одного не пойму, если ДрКромчег такой плохой и сидел на техноигле, то нафига он собирался валить из венала/жемината в курс/дельве?

(или я что то неправильно прочитал?)

Ты все правильно рочитал.

[Li Anderson]

Мне это напомнило как Дарох посрался с Б-52 (щаз они в лемах кажется).
Корпа была у нас когда жили в делве чтоб заниматся лунами и посами. Потом Дарох чето посчитал - сказал - где деньги, Б-52 сказали "мамой клянусь - не воровал", их кикнули.

Лемы, скажите, Б-52 у вас ворует щаз?

[Old Hroft]

казалось бы причем тут РМТ который всегда и везде является главным масштабныем евентмейекром евы

[Privateer]

Сочинение на тему "Спейсшипс сириуз бизнес и тридцать серебрянников"

[Madbulka]

казалось бы причем тут РМТ который всегда и везде является главным масштабныем евентмейекром евы

смени пластинку, ты уныл)

[fighter-killer]

Сочинение на тему "Спейсшипс сириуз бизнес и тридцать серебрянников"

Я бы сказал - "Иде мля маи 300 миллиярдов, Зин?"

[SkyFox]

Прочитал объяснения Дароха на английском.
Увидел много "меня не ценят/ценили"
Увидел много "вокруг кромчег/ЦЕО корп плохие"
Увидел много "несправедливой дележки Технетиумных лун"

Не увидел ответа на вопрос "какова была объективная причина так распустить альянс -Р-"
Хотя этот вопрос аж в заголовке стены текста от Дароха
"Why i disbanded Rebellion at the time of DRF attack"

Может я невнимательно читал ?

Сделал вывод, что либо Дарох чего-то не договаривает, либо нажал кнопку в эморейдже/по пьяни.
Оба варианта не сильно красят ИМХО.

Сообщение отредактировал SkyFox: 15 February 2011 - 16:19