ДАННОЕ СООБЩЕНИЕ (МАТЕРИАЛ) СОЗДАНО И (ИЛИ) РАСПРОСТРАНЕНО СРЕДСТВОМ МАССОВОЙ ИНФОРМАЦИИ, ВЫПОЛНЯЮЩИМ ФУНКЦИИ ИНОСТРАННОГО АГЕНТА, И (ИЛИ) РОССИЙСКИМ ЮРИДИЧЕСКИМ ЛИЦОМ, ВЫПОЛНЯЮЩИМ ФУНКЦИИ ИНОСТРАННОГО АГЕНТА
RED никогда не перестает удивлять, продавая супера врагам, но в этот раз благодаря нашим доблестным скамерам этого удалось избежать, немного чат порно с eve-o форума К сожалению многое было потерто, к счастью это поправимо.
Спойлер
Selling to character Xayder for 30B
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: nyx From: Xayder To: 8loodRedHavoc INBOX is that test alliance please ignore person? link name pls
hmm it is TEST alliance please ignore space we are blue to him, SO oke pls that system is oke
Re: Re: nyx From: 8loodRedHavoc Sent: 2013.01.01 18:19 To: Xayder,
Am i can travel like one jump somewhere is you want just say where i got 5jump calib, 5 carrier skils
Re: Re: nyx From: Xayder Sent: 2013.01.01 18:17 To: 8loodRedHavoc
oww pls pls pls no Sov 0.0 and no NPC 0.0 Only lowsec pls
Re: Re: nyx From: 8loodRedHavoc Sent: 2013.01.01 18:15 To: Xayder
Say when you are online, so i will login to game, the system is A2-V27
Re: Re: nyx From: Xayder Sent: 2013.01.01 18:11 To: 8loodRedHavoc
nvm
I'm online in 3o min
what system is it? so i make cyno route
Re: Re: nyx From: 8loodRedHavoc Sent: 2013.01.01 17:26 To: Xayder
Okey i will be online after few hours
Re: nyx From: Xayder Sent: 2013.01.01 17:25 To: 8loodRedHavoc,
now in work only in less then 2 hours
Re: nyx From: 8loodRedHavoc Sent: 2013.01.01 16:41 To: Xayder
I accept that offer, when you will be online?
nyx From: Xayder Sent: 2012.12.31 13:30 To: 8loodRedHavoc
30B instant buy?
Ну и сам фит
Спойлер
Highs: Capital Remote Armor Repair System I Remote ECM Burst I Capital Eenergy Transfer Array I Ammatar Navy Large EMP Smartbomb Imperial Navy Heavy Energy Neutralizer Improved Cloaking Device II
Mids: Shadow Serpentis Sensor Booster (Scan Resolution) 3 x Cap Recharger II Dark Blood Cap Recharger
Lows: Damage Control II Centum A-Type Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane x 2 Centus X-Type Armor Kinetic Hardener Centus X-Type Armor EM Hardener Centus X-Type Armor Explosive Hardener Centus X-Type Armor Thermic Hardener
Rigs: 3 x Large Trimark Armor Pump II
Cargohold: Nanite Repair 1045 Domination Warp Disruptor Domination Warp Scrambler Domination Stasis Webifier Imperial Navy Heavy Energy Neutralizer And some more stuff
Fuel Bay: 33.33k Oxygen Isotopes
Ship Mainenance Bay
Vagabond (It's a gift )
Fleet Hangar:
14.26k Oxygen Isotopes 5 x Capacitor Power Relay II 4x Drone Control Unit I 5x Cyclops 3x Target Painter II
Drone Bay: 20x Cyclops 15 x Einherji
Сообщение отредактировал Realyst: 02 January 2013 - 0:25
https://www.pandemic...&system=Okkamon
Интересный релейт. А что, Фаталы - уже не член КФК, или панды вышли из ОТЕКа? Или мемберы ОТЕКа могут безнаказанно стрелять друг друга?
Интересен релейтед тем, что когда тесты что-то ловят - что-то из этого уходит только чудом, и ладно в делве была шляпа на андоке, где отдались 15 мазеров, а убежали 1 или 2, но тут лоусек, и тесты поймали 3 мазера из 3.
Гуд джоб, вот реально.
Интересен релейтед тем, что когда тесты что-то ловят - что-то из этого уходит только чудом, и ладно в делве была шляпа на андоке, где отдались 15 мазеров, а убежали 1 или 2, но тут лоусек, и тесты поймали 3 мазера из 3. Гуд джоб, вот реально.
Казалось бы, причем тут ТЕСТы? Их в релейтеде нет вообще....
https://www.pandemic...&system=Okkamon Интересный релейт. А что, Фаталы - уже не член КФК, или панды вышли из ОТЕКа? Или мемберы ОТЕКа могут безнаказанно стрелять друг друга?
Это исключительно трудные новости, потому что я собираюсь сжечь за собой мост. На самом деле, будем реалистами - этот мост загорелся много месяцев назад, и сейчас я прекратил попытки делать вид будто у нас с Монтолио есть какие-то отношения кроме его кипящей, пассивной агрессивности против GSF и CFC. Как вы знаете все окончательно пошло в разнос с ТЕСТами несколько дрей назад, когда они объявили о намерении убить Fatal Ascension одного из наших соседей в регионе Fade, находясь в тоже время под защитой плюсов от нас.
Если кратко просуммировать то драма заключается в этом: Bring Stabity, Дипломат ТЕСТов по связям с альянсами CFC, объявил что Монтолио планирует спровоцировать FA на атаку ТЕСТов, так чтобы ТЕСТы смогли убить их в ответ не теряя плюсов с остальными альянсами коалиции. А это проблематично. Но мы попытались решить эту проблему мягко, как всегда подходили к фиглярствам Монтолио и просто удалили все HBC из канала по координации коалиции GFAllies. Это был исключительно мягкий ответ на "Мы планируем убить одного из ваших ближайшие союзников". А если учесть что перебранка между Монтолио и FA уже испортила общение в канале, так как союзники не чувствовали себя комфортно в нем, то данный шаг был скорее всего необходим и без этой провокации.
Ну как, это выглядит мелкой драмой для вас? Для меня тоже. Но однако мы стоим на пороге одной из самых массовых войн блоков в нулях: пассивная аггресивность лидера альянса сменилась взрывным возбуждением.
Монтолио потерял остатки разума после того как их удалили из GFAllies. Мы не делали никаких публичных объявлений об этим изменениях. Монтолио же сделал прикрепленный пост на форуме и разослал объявление по джабберу на весь HBC об этом; он также полностью удалил из джаббера ТЕСТов аккаунты всех пилотов CFC. После всего этого Монтолио сделал серию все более и более эксентричных броадкастов, связанных в основном с присоединением к ним очередной группы людей жаждущих нас убить:
Не удивляйтесь увидев представителей N3, NeoCurse, а возможно и Солар Флита в ближайшие недели в джаббере.
Пожалуйста не копируйте никаких броадкастов о сборе флотов в публичные разделы.
---
Progodlegend и Gorga из Нули Секунда уже в джаббере, кто же еще будет?
[4:43:45 PM] Vince Draken: я пришлю LadyScarlet
Спойлер
Expect to see some N3, NeoCurse, and potentially Solar Fleet people on jabber in coming weeks.
Please do not copy any fleet broadcasts into a public room.
---
Progodlegend and Gorga of S2N are already on jabber who else is coming?
[4:43:45 PM] Vince Draken: I will send LadyScarlet
(Самое интересное что Солары и N3 воюют сейчас за Cache между собой, так что эти всеобщие объявления явно направлены на то чтобы либо спровоцировать, либо запугать CFC. Ну или может Монтолио так себе ЧСВ и мораль поднимает)
Также сегодня ночью Монтолио активно постил на Кугу, и вместо того чтобы писать о ситуации с ФА, он решил выплеснуть свою раздражительность нытьем о том какие ужасные Гуны и как они смели помочь в Делве во время компании против южной коалиции:
Относительно настойчивого желания Гунов иметь несколько 'защитных' систем в Delve и Querious - есть огромные проблемы с доверием. Монолитный подход к коалиции отвращает любого кто хочет быть независимым. Посмотрите на любой регион CFC, и вы найдете хотя бы одну станцию Гунов. Забрать PNQY в Fountain, которая толком не использовалась, заняло у нас больше года. Одна из основных причим почему Гуны могут попытаться присвоить себе славу в любой компании - это то, что они отказываются интегрировать союзников в управление компанией или хотя бы дать управлять флотами. Гуны управляют, Гуны водят флоты.
Это работает, но это хрень. Помощь Гунсварма всегда идет с некоторыми условиями.
Спойлер
With regards to Goonswarm insisting on owning a few 'defensive systems' in Delve & Querious - Goonswarm has a huge trust issue. The monolithic approach to the entire coalition alienates anyone that wants to be independent. Check each CFC region, you are likely going to find at least one Goonswarm staging area. It took us over a year to get PNQY in Fountain, which they literally never used. One of the big reasons that Goonswarm can attempt to take credit for campaigns is because they refuse to integrate allies within campaign command or fleet command positions. Goon skymarshals, Goon FCs.
It works, but it sucks sometimes. Goonswarm aid always comes with preconditions.
Там еще не мало подобных постов; все это началось после вчерашнего послания Монтолио с говорящим заголовком "FA открыли огонь первыми. В нем он обвиняет FA в начале всего этого - каком-то споре с BDEAL, альянсе о котором за год с лишним уже все забыли, и споре о котором никто не говорил до тех пор пока Монтолио не потребовался предлог. Его мотивы понятны; в ответ на исключение из GFAllies за объявление о намерении убить одного из наших союзников он спонтанно кикнул всех CFC из джаббера, написал скучную простыню о том что это все вина FA из-за забытой драмы которая произошла больше года назад, и теперь на пару со своим верным помошником Rob3r обсирают Гунов на Кугу. Мы вынуждены были иметь дело с таким аггрессивным поведением все последние годы, но похоже сейчас все прошло точку невозврата.
Что за фигня вообще происходит?
Может быть Монтолио злой мегамозг и все это часть его грандиозного плана чтобы привести нас к падению, но вероятней всего, он просто эксентричен по жизне и избалован положением ТЕСТов в политической жизни нулей, что вылилось в поведение подозрительно напоминающее истеричного ребетнка. Вот некоторые варианты:
Он может быть недружелюбным: попытка убить одного из наших сильнейших союзников, окружая себя в тоже время нашими врагами, такие как Raiden. (которым он дал прибежище в регионе Querious и 'N3', новый дом Nulli Secunda и Northern Coalition. Оба альянса участвовали в недавних драмах, в развязке которых они вынуждены были сбежать и искать прибежище у наших противников. Все это напоминает классическую стратегии "Разделяй и властвуй" и "окружай и захватывай". Однако это требует хорошего планирования на перспективу от Монтолио, так что это скорее всего просто параноидальная версия не имеющая ничего общего с действительностью.
Он может быть сумашедшим: его реакция на события была полностью гипертрофирована. Его поведение непредсказуемо и эксентрично, на самом деле эта его черта хорошо известна. Хотя "этот парень псих, кто знает" не нормальное объяснение, оно может быть близко к правде, судя по тому как часто он меняет свою точку зрения (FA начало это первыми! Нет, подождите это Гуны во всем виноваты и т.д.)
Он может быть избалован: Мы помогли Монтолио захватить Fountain, и вместе с PL помогли захватить Delve, Querious и Period Basis; когда мы ушли домой после одной из его истерик, PL помогли ему довести войну с Южной Коалицией до конца. Когда Монтолио захотел Технолуны, мы дали ему часть наших собственных. Когда Монтолио начал свой продолжительный срачь с Fatal Ascension, мы его не остановили. Когда Монтолио обвинил нас в попытке использования наших систем с бриджами в Fountain для ~секретной цели по уничтожению ТЕСТов~ (PNQY, J5A) мы их отдали; когда он решил, что ему не нужна наша помощь в защите Delve из созвездия W-4, мы отдали все системы в регионе ему.
Практически в каждой ситуации что я могу вспомнить, стратегия 'раздуй проблему и включи истерику' работала для Монтолио когда случался какой-то конфликт; он похоже просто не понимает как или не хочет снижать накал страстей в конфликтах, а до тех пор пока PL или CFC готовы были поддержать его, такая стратегия работала отлично против различных врагов - до тех пор пока он не попробовал тоже самое на одном из альянсов CFC.
Насколько я знаю "Нет, ты не можешь оставаться в GFAllies замышляя в тоже время как убить FA" это первый раз мы сказали "Нет" Монтолио, и он полностью изошел г***ом из-за этого - как испорченный шестилетний ребенок пинающих все вокруг когда ему не дали четвертую конфету за день. Возможно мы сами породили этого монстра, будучи настолько уступчивы все эти годы; как бы то ни было это явно что, аргументировать, договариваться, примиряться это не вариант. Так как это только увеличит его склонность к драмам и психоз.
Ну так что с ТЕСТами?
Нам нравятся ТЕСТы. Мы помогли им сделать первые шаги в нулях; хотя между Reddit и SA могли существовать трения, простые завсегда этих форумов похожи друг на друга, особенно если сравнивать с остальной Евой, у которой нет 'родного форума'. У нас нет никакой ссоры с рядовыми пилотами ТЕСТов. Мы отлично болтаем с ребятами типа Durrhurrdurr и Walter Stine, а один из моих лучших друзей в реале - ЦЕО одной из корп в ТЕСТах. Половина персонала на моем новостном сайте из ТЕСТов. Все это делает ситуацию крайне неловкой: все наши проблемы в ТЕСТами по сути можно сжать в одну фразу: "Монтолио - агрессивный, избалованный ребенок", и похоже он пытается навязать нам очередную "Великую войну", и собирает под свои знамена всех с кем мы сражались за последние четыре года..
Сейчас Монтоли похоже думает - ну или утверждает так всем, кто готов его слушать - что Гуны собираются вторгнуться на территорию ТЕСТов. Мы не собираемся, да и это было бы просто тупо по целому ряду причин - даже если не учитывать что нам просто не нужно больше территории, что наша победа далеко не гарантирована, и самое важное что у нас слишком много друзей в ТЕСТах. В ответ на несуществующее вторжение Монтолио похоже собирает силы со всей Евы против нас, хотя мы еще формально союзники - и все за наш ужасный грех, что мы посмели тихо разделить его с FA, которых он собирался уничтожить, в джаббере.
ТЕСТы члены OTEC, так что даже если Монтолио переклинит и резетнет нас мы не станем нападать на его технопосы (подаренные нами ТЕСТам) до тех пор пока он нас не атакует.
Абсолютно ясно что мы практически не можем хоть как-то работать с Монтолио и вся дипломатическая переписка, то немногое что от нее осталось, теперь пойдет только через "младших" дипломатов тестов. Мы оставим его наедине со своим хобби по сфабриковыванию невразумительных обид, подготовки нашего падения и т.д. ТЕСТы не были отключены от нашего джаббера или форума, мы оставляем с ними плюсы и надеемся что это безумие пройдет или кто-то даст конфетку орущему ребенку прежде чем мы полностью оглохнем от истерики.
Я оскорблен TESTами/FA/Суверенитетом в Delve/BDEAL
В ближайшие дни вы увидите тонны сообщений, обвинений, небылиц пока Монтолио пытается уболтать себя и всех остальных резетнуть нас из-за исключения его из одного канала в джаббере. Прошлогодняя драма с BDEAL. Гуны сказали это/то о суверенитете в Fountain или Delve и вообще мы злые родители. FA/Zagdul сделали или сказали это и вообще кретин/кретины. Например Delve - это было попытка Гунов наступить на горло Монтолио, а не ответ на непосредственную просьбу о помощи.
Что же на самом деле случилось в Delve? Я приведу некоторые логи, так как та ситуация похоже является краеугольным камнем в попытке Монтолио выставить нас на Кугу "злыднями". 24ого июня Монтолио попросил нас о помощи, кстати там было и про FA, что к ним он не имеет никаких претензий. (Помните 'FA начали это первыми'?)
Сначала Montolio связался с Courthouse 24ого июня и попросил помощь.
Спойлер
(23:55:31) courthouse@goons.pleaseignore.com/:ese:: based on what I've seen today you've been talking to just about everyone trying to get people to dogpile to delve because soco put up 700 people for an sbu shoot, right? (23:56:33) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: More or less, yes (23:56:50) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: The consequences for failure before today was that we just went back to Fountain (23:56:52) courthouse@goons.pleaseignore.com/:ese:: I haven't seen any battle reports or really followed the kugu thread or anything, but I assume shit's pretty much gotten real? (23:57:05) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: The consequence for failure now will be a reinvigorated new bloc that is hostile to us (23:57:16) courthouse@goons.pleaseignore.com/:ese:: have they come out and stated that their intent is to pressure fountain? (23:57:29) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: They are moving proxy elements into Fountain (23:57:36) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: and they are all dogpiling into Delve (23:58:14) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: We are very concerned that the enemies will form into something that is much more threatening then we anticipated (23:58:39) courthouse@goons.pleaseignore.com/:ese:: okay, then basically shit's real, so if there's any advice I can give it'd be to let the people who are good at their jobs do them. Unfortunately that may mean that we take more operational control than you guys had stated you were comfortable with. (23:59:03) courthouse@goons.pleaseignore.com/:ese:: because if the alternative to winning is that fountain is threatened, egos be damned it's time to win. (23:59:19) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: You can have total operational control (23:59:20) courthouse@goons.pleaseignore.com/:ese:: that's not to say that test leadership doesn't have a place (23:59:23) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: Or Pandemic Legion can have it (23:59:28) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: Ego is out of this now (23:59:35) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: What we do now has consequences for more then TEST (23:59:45) courthouse@goons.pleaseignore.com/:ese:: yeah, I'm just CFC coalition management and diplomacy, not so much the skymarshal. (23:59:56) courthouse@goons.pleaseignore.com/:ese:: so this is just advice and isn't binding (6/25/2012 00:00:06) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: We are willing to turn over 100% of it if thats what we need to do to win this
...
(00:16:00) courthouse@goons.pleaseignore.com/:ese:: what's the status of the relationship between test and the groups you guys 'for fun' reset a month or two ago/ (00:16:08) courthouse@goons.pleaseignore.com/:ese:: I'm specifically worried about FA (00:16:19) courthouse@goons.pleaseignore.com/:ese:: because there were a lot of unkind words passed between both groups (00:16:22) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: Well RAZOR is already here (00:16:33) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: and Fatal Ascension is on the way already (00:16:42) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: They are either in Syndicate or Aridia at the moment (00:16:50) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: The FA thing has evolved into more of a playful competition (00:17:07) courthouse@goons.pleaseignore.com/:ese:: FA just finished syndicate intending to go to aridia next (00:17:30) courthouse@goons.pleaseignore.com/:ese:: I was on their TS a half hour ago (00:17:54) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: I have no serious animosity towards Zagdul anymore (00:18:00) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: Fighting is great for getting that out of the system (00:18:13) courthouse@goons.pleaseignore.com/:ese:: okay. probably a good thing to let him know if you haven't already (00:18:25) courthouse@goons.pleaseignore.com/:ese:: if he's an asshole about it let me know and I'll take him back behind the barn (00:18:42) courthouse@goons.pleaseignore.com/:ese:: but that was something that I was worried might turn into a thing (00:18:44) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: We've been talking, he was the first CFC to offer help (00:20:32) courthouse@goons.pleaseignore.com/:ese:: okay good, that means it won't be a thing
Я в это время нахожусь на Аляске. На следующий день я захожу в союзный джаббер для координации и с Монтолио все отлично:
Спойлер
[9:42 PM] the_mittani: anyway, I'm planning [9:43 PM] the_mittani: in regard to our most recent diplomatic records (from last night) I'm going to avoid a Y-2 scenario by carving out a small path of space for GSF between NPC Delve and Catch, the W-4 to 49- corridor [9:43 PM] the_mittani: we will likely stage in NPC delve or borrow J-L until W-4 is pacified and try to take 49- as rapidly as possible [9:44 PM] the_mittani: that is the 'neck' of those two regions and with our boot on it, it limits the hostile options substantially [9:45 PM] the_mittani: from there we can bridge direct onto C3N, too [9:46 PM] Montolio [.-A-.]: King of the North [9:46 PM] Montolio [.-A-.]: Herculetz Lannister will not stand [9:47 PM] Montolio [.-A-.]: Is it king of or king in? [9:47 PM] the_mittani: beyond that I don't give a shit about the territory, if we're making a GoT analogy there's a Freys thing going on [9:48 PM] the_mittani: That space is the 'trident' of Delve/Q, and there's no valuable moons anyway, so the rest of the spoils can be divvied out. but I'm sick of the backand- forth of conquering/not conquering this region [9:51 PM] rob3r: Agreed, Test position is we want to murder some fucking publords, and we are just glad we were able to kick off what is shaping up to be the next Great War [9:53 PM] the_mittani: delve 1/2 began from W-4, not seeing a reason to change a winning strategy [9:53 PM] the_mittani: alrighty, that was easy [9:53 PM] Montolio [.-A-.]: We are very appreciative of the support [9:54 PM] the_mittani: we might need you to have over k-6k which is sovless in order for us to drop a staging gallente egg there but I'm not yet set on a stager for us [9:55 PM] the_mittani: we're working on it [9:55 PM] the_mittani: not sovless, stationless [9:55 PM] Montolio [.-A-.]: We will hand over anything you need
К середине июля начинаются конспирологические теории; после победы Монтолио ноет что мы не помогаем в зачистке Period Basis, как мы помогали в Delve и Querious, хотя никакого сопротивления им не оказывается. Также там есть ремарки какие мы ужасные что не хотим организовывать опс чтобы перебить станцию без сопротивления. Я реально не понимаю в чем проблема, а он просто брыжжет слюной.
7/16/12
Спойлер
(1:49:57 PM) sionkumitomo@goons.pleaseignore.com/parrotcave: hello (1:50:03 PM) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: hi (1:50:39 PM) sionkumitomo@goons.pleaseignore.com/parrotcave: so what's up? (1:51:00 PM) sionkumitomo@goons.pleaseignore.com/parrotcave: I'm yelling at our dudes for causing problems, but yeah. I don't really know what's going on either (1:56:40 PM) sionkumitomo@goons.pleaseignore.com/parrotcave: would you like some insight into why theadj is upset? (1:56:55 PM) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: sure, because I have no fucking understanding of it (1:58:43 PM) sionkumitomo@goons.pleaseignore.com/parrotcave: he's put in a lot of work to help out down south. work he was by no means obligated to do. I suspect he feels like he's being shat on for not doing enough work. (1:58:59 PM) sionkumitomo@goons.pleaseignore.com/parrotcave: when yeah, he's done a lot. (1:59:05 PM) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: We are doing a sov swapped that was agreed on by both sides (1:59:11 PM) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: and you guys want to do the bear minimum on this end of it (1:59:19 PM) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: bare (1:59:31 PM) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: I don't understand it mostly because its god damn cap work (1:59:36 PM) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: The one thing you should never do fragmented (1:59:39 PM) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: and its just cynos (1:59:44 PM) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: its as low effort as it gets (2:00:50 PM) sionkumitomo@goons.pleaseignore.com/parrotcave: but it isn't particularly mission critical at this point either. I reckon our dudes are just a bit worn out from all this and are looking for ways to lessen their workload. (2:01:07 PM) sionkumitomo@goons.pleaseignore.com/parrotcave: none of which implies a soco level of fragmentation I don't think. (2:01:24 PM) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: We've been doing this for months (2:01:50 PM) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: The entire region your getting NOL is so that GSF will feel invested in the region (2:01:54 PM) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: entire reason (2:02:38 PM) sionkumitomo@goons.pleaseignore.com/parrotcave: perhaps, but that's more symbolic than practical when it comes down to it. (2:02:56 PM) sionkumitomo@goons.pleaseignore.com/parrotcave: goon are I'm sure looking forward to ratting in delve though (2:03:00 PM) sionkumitomo@goons.pleaseignore.com/parrotcave: *goons (2:04:10 PM) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: We fight 50% of the war, CFC comes down GSF claims victory and stands up as backbone of the entire thing and then people don't want to do the grunt work at the end (2:04:16 PM) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: CFC is going home this weekened (2:04:17 PM) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: weekend (2:04:20 PM) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: Period Basis isn't done (2:04:48 PM) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: You can perhaps understand why we are upset (2:04:54 PM) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: or confused, or whatever you want to classify it as (2:05:41 PM) sionkumitomo@goons.pleaseignore.com/parrotcave: no, I really can't. as you said before, this isn't about egos. this was about winning. we, collectively, won. (2:06:02 PM) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: You guys came for the 'win' but not the 'finish' (2:06:13 PM) sionkumitomo@goons.pleaseignore.com/parrotcave: I don't realistically think you need the CFC to finish off PB anyway do you? (2:06:38 PM) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: Need? No, but it really shoots the entire concept of a friendly collective of guys that like each other (2:06:51 PM) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: Especially when we are giving GSF ratting rights to the region that we conquered before you even showed up (2:07:32 PM) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: We needed you to win this war, no illusions on that (2:07:33 PM) sionkumitomo@goons.pleaseignore.com/parrotcave: the 'finish' bit is a hard sell I think to people who don't feel like their help is wanted or appreciated. as you said, we can "just head back to VFK and collect those technetium deposits" while you handle it. (2:07:38 PM) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: But you guys want sov you want infastructure down here (2:07:41 PM) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: bridges and shit (2:07:52 PM) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: It feels really unfair for you to show up for the climax only and then leave (2:08:34 PM) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: If you just came down, hi5s all around, some battles and then rode bikes back north nobody would be this confused (2:08:41 PM) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: But you guys want to be INVESTED in this (2:08:45 PM) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: You have 49- and NOL (2:08:52 PM) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: You took 49- specifically to invade Catch (2:08:54 PM) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: When you aren't doing (2:08:58 PM) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: which you aren't doing (2:09:40 PM) sionkumitomo@goons.pleaseignore.com/parrotcave: to the best of my understanding, you offered us whatever we needed. which we took you up on. which was then renegotiated at your behest. ex post facto of that, I don't understand the anger about us wanting the things you said we could have, and are in any case no longer getting. (2:10:19 PM) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: I said you guys could have whatever you needed to win this war (2:10:29 PM) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: The war was one as soon as you came down here (2:10:59 PM) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: The majority of my subcaps are out on a fucking boat fleet right now (2:11:06 PM) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: So my caps are grinding without sub or coalition support (2:11:42 PM) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: Whats the point of NOL and 49- when you guys don't even have the energy to help us swap a station? (2:12:28 PM) sionkumitomo@goons.pleaseignore.com/parrotcave: honestly, I don't understand why we'd want them either if we're not running bridges to them. maybe nol I guess, but not 49- (2:12:52 PM) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: Right, and we are just going to end up with a J5A/PNQY situation again (2:12:57 PM) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: Bridges out of fuel constantly (2:13:01 PM) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: because no goons give a shit to fuel them (2:13:29 PM) sionkumitomo@goons.pleaseignore.com/parrotcave: as we're not running any bridges, that strikes me as unlikely (2:13:40 PM) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: Joe asked us for bridging systems today (2:13:48 PM) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: and linked a map that wouldn't even work (2:13:49 PM) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: heh (2:13:56 PM) sionkumitomo@goons.pleaseignore.com/parrotcave: he was unaware of the changes made (2:14:55 PM) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: I'm just really confused by this entire campaign (2:15:08 PM) sionkumitomo@goons.pleaseignore.com/parrotcave: how do you mean? (2:15:14 PM) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: This is the first time we asked you guys for help with a TEST campaign and its been drama and frustration from the start (2:16:26 PM) sionkumitomo@goons.pleaseignore.com/parrotcave: true. for what should be entirely obvious reasons though. (2:16:57 PM) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: Its because you guys weren't in charge of it all from the start (2:17:07 PM) sionkumitomo@goons.pleaseignore.com/parrotcave: no. (2:17:13 PM) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: then what was it (2:17:17 PM) sionkumitomo@goons.pleaseignore.com/parrotcave: are you familiar with the concept of a self fulfilling prophecy? (2:17:32 PM) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: I am yes (2:18:25 PM) sionkumitomo@goons.pleaseignore.com/parrotcave: that's pretty much it. (2:18:52 PM) sionkumitomo@goons.pleaseignore.com/parrotcave: for example, the pnqy/j5a thing? (2:19:07 PM) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: go on (2:19:26 PM) sionkumitomo@goons.pleaseignore.com/parrotcave: sinister goon plot, key high way for the coalition, pick one. (2:19:39 PM) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: key high that was never fueled (2:19:43 PM) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: key highway that TEST could have run (2:19:48 PM) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: But goons didn't trust us enough (2:20:08 PM) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: I was told by Mittens it was there because nobody thought we were stable and you guys wanted a stronghold to retake the region if we collapsed (2:20:14 PM) sionkumitomo@goons.pleaseignore.com/parrotcave: and indeed do now. it isn't a matter of trust though, and therein you're proving my point about self fulfilling prophecies. (2:20:27 PM) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: If its not about trust, then what is it about (2:20:45 PM) sionkumitomo@goons.pleaseignore.com/parrotcave: practicality (2:20:57 PM) sionkumitomo@goons.pleaseignore.com/parrotcave: the same reason we hold an embassy system in tenal (2:21:07 PM) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: TEST maintained the fountain bridge network with zero issues (2:21:07 PM) sionkumitomo@goons.pleaseignore.com/parrotcave: for incidentally, the same reasons. (2:21:18 PM) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: The GSF practice of leaving embassies around makes people feel like pets (2:21:40 PM) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: We are culturally extremely similiar (2:21:46 PM) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: but your external practices alienate my members constantly (2:21:47 PM) sionkumitomo@goons.pleaseignore.com/parrotcave: surprisingly no. with one striking exception anyway. (2:21:55 PM) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: and I have to actively manage that aspect of our relationship (2:22:35 PM) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: seriously, I want to be super cool BFFS (2:22:41 PM) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: But people make that so god damn hard (2:22:49 PM) sionkumitomo@goons.pleaseignore.com/parrotcave: that's a matter of perception though, and you can either paint it internally as "hey we're buds" or "the goons are keeping us down." (2:23:01 PM) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: nobody has to paint it (2:23:05 PM) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: people make their own observations (2:23:09 PM) sionkumitomo@goons.pleaseignore.com/parrotcave: by mittani saying things like TEST is family during the sotg? (2:23:19 PM) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: A month from now the 20 TEST caps on this fleet right now are going to remember this night (2:23:33 PM) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: They are going to remember this as the night that goons were too good to help us grind five stations (2:23:49 PM) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: That kind of shit isn't erased by some casual SOTG mentions (2:24:22 PM) sionkumitomo@goons.pleaseignore.com/parrotcave: whereas some of our dudes are going to remember this night as the time the leader of test made snarky comments to them while fighting for them. (2:24:28 PM) sionkumitomo@goons.pleaseignore.com/parrotcave: this isn't a one way street. (2:24:38 PM) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: I made it after you guys decided to us (2:25:20 PM) sionkumitomo@goons.pleaseignore.com/parrotcave: not by my logs. (2:25:39 PM) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: (11:46:04 PM) ninablaze: montolio: I don't think so, just flipping NOL real quick (11:46:08 PM) montolio: from what I understand GSF is only doing NOL and then riding into the sunset (11:46:40 PM) ninablaze: lol, you really giving us shit right now montolio? (11:47:17 PM) montolio: is that supposed to imply I should be grateful you aren't assisting? (2:25:39 PM) sionkumitomo@goons.pleaseignore.com/parrotcave: theadj was provoked. but that's neither here nor there. (2:26:04 PM) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: after that your two dudes proceeded to tell me they were busy playing other games (2:26:15 PM) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: and that those other games are more important then our caps once GSF has what it wants (2:26:37 PM) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: (11:49:59 PM) ninablaze: I am personally enjoying Mount and Blade: Warband - napoleonic wars, am0k. has a rag tag group of drummer boys fighting the good fight (11:50:17 PM) theadj: im trying to grind out an XL400 right now, I really want to try a maxed out speed atlas (2:26:53 PM) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: XL400 - more important then our allies ~ (2:26:57 PM) sionkumitomo@goons.pleaseignore.com/parrotcave: and there's your narrative spin again which is exactly what I'm trying to communicate here. (2:27:14 PM) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: I'm not spinning shit, im posting what was said (2:27:27 PM) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: im genuinely fucking upset (2:27:37 PM) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: I was just partying with GSF directors three days ago (2:27:49 PM) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: I hugged mittens on Friday (2:27:53 PM) sionkumitomo@goons.pleaseignore.com/parrotcave: okay, then how about another narrative? one wherein those guys are weary from fighting, want to take a break, and such? not particularly sinister, no agendas. (2:27:56 PM) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: and I can't get you guys to help with a station (2:28:04 PM) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: Everyone is weary! (2:28:24 PM) sionkumitomo@goons.pleaseignore.com/parrotcave: so why not cut them a break on a non-critical station transfer? (2:28:28 PM) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: We just punched another coalition in the teeth and embarassed them so completely that they are blaming each other (2:28:48 PM) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: Because it means that I will have 25 supers on 5 stations over the next few hours (2:28:50 PM) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: with no support (2:28:55 PM) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: Which is the dumbest fucking thing (2:29:26 PM) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: and if any of our enemies are smart they will bring their entire super fleet onto the field, wipe us and declare victory (2:29:36 PM) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: and the rest of the CFC will through their hands up and go "WHY WAS TEST DOING THIS ALONE" (2:29:38 PM) sionkumitomo@goons.pleaseignore.com/parrotcave: hrm. well, that I'm not sure of. did you ask dbrb about his support fleet or whatever? I'm not honestly up on what fleets are up and about at the moment. (2:30:04 PM) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: what we are doing right now is exactly the kind of thing you don't do with caps (2:30:12 PM) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: and you guys have been playing for years and don't see that (2:31:19 PM) sionkumitomo@goons.pleaseignore.com/parrotcave: well that could be I dunno. I'm not an fc type at all I'm afraid (2:32:10 PM) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: Please ask an FC if having 25 supers/caps unsupported doing predictable work for several hours past 04:00 is wise or not (2:32:27 PM) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: heh (2:32:51 PM) sionkumitomo@goons.pleaseignore.com/parrotcave: I'd really rather not. the fc types tend to be a bit on the diva side (2:33:13 PM) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: the only reason I'm remotely comfortable about it is this is the kind of shit PL would ruin in the past (2:34:10 PM) sionkumitomo@goons.pleaseignore.com/parrotcave: at any rate, now that mittani is back I'll assume you want to talk with him, and I shall appraise him of the situation. (2:34:26 PM) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: im sure he is going to be very angry with me for being an unreasonable nigger (2:35:11 PM) sionkumitomo@goons.pleaseignore.com/parrotcave: I'm not sure, I'm really not up on your relationship with him. I was only very recently assigned to you dudes (2:35:27 PM) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: GOOD LUCK
Спустя четыре дня нам вся эта конспирология надоела и Vile Rat говорит Монтолио что он может забрать не только W-4, 49-, NOL, но и вообще все о чем изначально Гуны просили так как мы сваливаем оттуда. Радуйся новым трем регионам и пока - нам надоело это двурушнечиство.
7/17/12
Спойлер
09:02:02 vile_rat I think we're going to decline Delve ratting rights. Also we need to discuss the disposition of the querious outpost we dropped. Would you like to pay us the material cost for it? or we just keep it?
09:03:24 Montolio I'm assuming just keeping it is fine may want to wait until tomorrow to make a decision on that though
09:04:25 vile_rat How so?
09:04:43 Montolio going to have a dreddit directors meeting tomorrow, might be stepping down
09:05:07 vile_rat Well that was unexpected
09:05:24 Montolio my abrasive diplomacy may not be what we need going forward
09:05:27 vile_rat But why would that impact the purchase or non purchase of the staging system?
09:05:55 Montolio depending on the outcome the new guy may want you guys to have more involvement etc.. it'll probably be status quo I've done this before and the dreddit directors unanimiously supported keeping me on
09:06:44 vile_rat Ok then. Let's talk about the station then would you guys like to purchase the material cost or have us keep it?
09:07:00 Montolio keep it probably The last two months of my dealings with you guys have been super rocky and im afraid thats my personal feelings getting in the way or something
09:08:04 vile_rat
What do you think is causing this rockiness
09:08:35 Montolio I'm not entirely sure, cultural differences, difference perspectives, experience levels, goals etc. who knows but I feel like I've seriously damaged the relationship and one of our core values is our relationship with goons
09:10:07 vile_rat Well, While our FC team can be blunt I can see why they are a bit upset right now
09:10:31 Montolio I expected to patch it up during testival but I barely got more then two sentences out to mittens the entire time
09:11:31 vile_rat I can tell you what test looks like from my eyes if you'd like. perhaps that will help with perspective
09:11:40 Montolio sure
09:12:32 vile_rat It is our perspective that you guys desperately want to be out from under our shadow both real and perceived
09:12:50 Montolio we do, we don't want to be under any shadow we are fiercely independent but also fiercely loyal
09:13:32 vile_rat
We don't consider it a shadow and our efforts to be a friend to you are met with a perceived iciness and arms length We've never attempted to lord over test, we've never taken resources from you to keep for ourselves, (including pnqy)
09:14:01 Montolio Right, you say "We are taking 49- to protect you" But thats not what we hear
09:14:15 vile_rat not to protect you per se but you asked the coalition to come down and help you take the region for really no benefit to the coalition at all fine. We're not even fighting that. but you have displayed a need for the coalition, it was our intention to put the coalition at the front line to discourage people getting uppity in your space Your guys took it as imperial ambitions and a desire to control you and you as leader, did nothing to discourage this thinking. It's become toxic and honestly it's become the reality in the eyes of the common test grunt
09:16:27 Montolio Which is one of the reasons I am talking to my directors Because I sympathize with the test grunt viewpoint
09:16:55 vile_rat And I contend it's based on a false premise and completely unfair to us and the work this entire coalition did to deliver you three regions on a platter with no expectation of any recompense
09:17:19 Montolio
Your motivations and goals are pure, but we'd rather be the ones attacked. If we can't defend these regions ourselves then its somewhat pointless
09:17:59 vile_rat if our motivations and goals are pure, why do you help stoke the fire against us
09:18:01 Montolio these systems will come out in our time zone
09:18:11 vile_rat you could say "no, they are just being friends trying to make sure we're safe in our new home"
09:18:17 Montolio I do say that
09:18:18 vile_rat but you egg them on. encourage that kind of talk act like we're assholes for even suggesting such an arrangement
09:18:31 Montolio But we can defend it ourselves, at the very least we'd like to fail at defending it nobody has invaded us before Even mentioning Raiden attacking Fountain got a bump in TEST fleet participation If 49- is the first hit on a d/p/q invasion and it belongs to GSF then when the invasion starts its 'The CFC is being attacked' and not 'We are being attacked'
09:20:18 vile_rat what happens if you start to lose it.
09:20:38 Montolio You guys lost several times and you seem better for it tbh. If TEST can't win in US TZ then we don't deserve it
09:21:13 vile_rat I mean what is your expectation from us should you get invaded
09:21:43 Montolio I wouldn't expect you to immediately deploy to defend and depending on how we handle things I may not even want you to defend
09:22:15 vile_rat at what point will your directors start saying we've abandoned you
09:22:39 Montolio When people start crying out for our saviors and you say no but it'll be me saying no at the start I don't know if that makes sense
09:23:09 vile_rat It's not fair to say you want to be invaded but when things become precarious you want us to rush in and fill the void
09:23:29 Montolio I think we can hold it GSF and PL are the biggest potential threats and both of you are blue so taking the regions is an entirely different matter because of TZ coverage
09:24:22 vile_rat so tell me specifically what you'd like from us moving forward.
09:24:46 Montolio We are so entitled
09:24:54 vile_rat (2:04:10 PM) montolio@pleaseignore.com/home: We fight 50% of the war, CFC comes down GSF claims victory and stands up as backbone of the entire thing and then people don't want to do the grunt work at the end you are.
09:25:04 Montolio yeah I understand it and 80% of our income is shit you guys gave us
09:25:12 vile_rat Since this was all for you.
09:25:31 Montolio I was going to say be treated like equals But thats not really fair Because pretty much the only reason we can do what we do it because you gave us tech moons
09:26:03 vile_rat We've been pretty rotten to you I admit!
09:26:59 Montolio I guess what I want is help being the strongest possible ally we can be. A lot of this is just dumb narrative, like in the history of TEST, the grunt is going to remember this war in a certain way
09:27:50 vile_rat Instead of realtalk from you all we get is angsty shit from bring and really vague displeasure from you without ever working with us to nail down exactly what it is
09:27:55 Montolio The way they are going to remember PL is much rosier then how they will remember GSF
09:28:13 vile_rat You have done little to build a positive narrative.
09:28:49 Montolio I know, but its not easy because a lot of it comes from grass roots questions "Why are goons doing X" and sometimes the answer they just don't like
09:29:00 vile_rat And how do you answer it.
09:29:12 Montolio "To feel invested in the region and as a strategic bulkhead" etc and they just don't snap with that answer but its the real answer
09:29:59 vile_rat Well now you can tell the happy masses that we're not going to be invested at all they should be thrilled.
09:30:30 Montolio I want my dudes to feel a kinship with goons
09:30:31 vile_rat You can even tell them that we listened to their concerns and want to be a good ally
09:31:21 Montolio I feel like I've offended you but I am really trying to be as honest as possible
09:31:30 vile_rat Hell even now our guys are helping you do the grunt afterwork to finish claiming your regions that you wanted for ourselves
09:31:46 Montolio I feel like TEST can be the best ally you guys have, but in ways that you don't expect
09:32:02 vile_rat You are a bad supervisor. Let me explain why: you are the kind of guy who hears something from management that your direct employees won't like much and instead of helping to make it work, you confide in your guys that you think it's bullshit too but "sigh" I guess we have to do it if they are making us, which encourages people to think bad things about the decision and the decision makers in that instance so in the end people think less of us, and you kinda encourage it
09:33:19 Montolio Its not so much that, its that the middle management in TEST doesn't like it and that goes both up and down and sometimes I think its valid I mean J5A and PNQY, Was that ever useful? Was it ever needed? The bridge was unfueled a lot of the time and the systems almost never touched The strategy on those two systems was sound, but in reality never needed
09:35:07 vile_rat was it needed? We didn't know we had just taken fountain for you from IT. We didn't know what you could do to defend it, we didn't know if you were capable of it. If fountain fell, what fell next?
09:35:56 Montolio And you are doing the same thing in d/q/p But we could defend it and we did and we won't know what TEST is capable of if we never let it happen. Like I said, your moves make sense in the grand scheme of things but goons only trust goons and not being trusted breeds resentment
09:41:30 vile_rat I'd say you have the same issue vis a vis dreddit and test
09:41:35 Montolio But, case in point, name a CFC region that GSF doesn't hold a system in
09:41:58 vile_rat what does that matter? you know why we do that right?
09:42:11 Montolio It doesn't, but you guys trust yourselves far beyond anyone else
09:42:11 vile_rat why we have regions like branch with multiple alliances in it? You are right. Don't you trust yourselves more than you trust us? or is it only pejorative when applied to us?
09:42:42 Montolio To be honest in a lot of situations we trust you more
09:43:09 vile_rat then why not cut the passive aggressive shit out and just have this realtalk discussion
09:43:23 Montolio I am and I have been trying but it always comes off as offensive or entitled, or rude. You guys trust yourselves, you have this grand strategy spanning half of EVE, you have a JB network that goes north to south. Its extremely impressive But its the goon empire, you guys aren't harsh pet masters or whatever like BoB was But it is still undeniably your empire and you guys have strategic systems in every region and you carefully manage all the allies in the coalition But TEST isn't like the other alliances in the coalition, culturally we share more connections with the GSF way of doing things Which makes us want to be independent, want to run our own structures, want to be trusted We can't be goons if your being goons in the same places HEH
09:49:51 vile_rat So what specifically do you want from us, what do you expect from us?
09:50:03 Montolio
ALL THE TECH Anything you guys can do to minimize appearing to lord over us or coddle us, even if the appearance is wrong
09:51:04 vile_rat We've felt like we've bent over backwards at every turn.
09:51:32 Montolio That has been benefits though, hasn't there? maybe intagible benefits
09:51:46 vile_rat We're feeling unappreciated that's for damn sure
09:51:48 Montolio Have we been worth it? well there is no way for us to help you, you never need it
09:52:38 vile_rat we haven't asked for help.
09:54:02 Montolio I know
09:54:19 vile_rat You did. Were we there with everything we had, because you asked us to did we not do what you asked?
09:54:34 Montolio
How do I repay the debts when you never need anything How can you guys NOT resent us?
09:55:00 vile_rat We don't care about what you do for us
09:55:15 Montolio I think we'd care but you guys are too good
09:55:42 vile_rat we do care that we've done everything we could to give you what you asked for and we feel like we're being shat on by test directorate. In addition the test directorate is letting a nasty situation get nastier by not helping build the narrative the way it actually is so the average test guy ends up resentful and completely bought in to this false narrative that we're building an empire and want the best space in delve and try to keep everybody in our shadow which we strongly feel isn't the case. We do resent that.
09:57:11 Montolio Even if I came out strongly saying the proper narrative, which I did do many times internally, a lot of people won't buy it
09:57:37 vile_rat Then lead. As it stands in DQPB you got everything. We're taking nothing for ourselves. Three regions, a whole coalition, to give this to you
09:58:45 Montolio
Did anyone need anything? Or do they
09:58:57 vile_rat It's a bit late to have that discussion
09:59:03 Montolio I mean in general
09:59:04 vile_rat You've already made it clear that the area is yours.
Все эти 'проблемы' просто красная тряпка чтобы отвлечь от правды. Монтоли планировал напасть на одного из наших союзников, был пойман на этом, и тихо исключен из канала по координации союзников, после чего потерял остатки разума и готовит полномасштабную войну в ответ на такое смертельное оскорбление.
edit:Забыл сделать перевод одного заголовка
Сообщение отредактировал Felin: 22 January 2013 - 18:15
скорее бы начал
будет интересно на это посмотреть )
0
Именно в этот момент меня не было. Тем не менее (KsaKor)
какие тебе пруфы. хавай как есть, я ж цыган!!! (Madbulka)
Чем лучше я узнаю людей, тем больше я люблю бактерий под ободком унитаза.
Спасибо тебе добрый человек за труд над переводом сего опуса.
А вообще дела как ? Настроены ли Гуны на войну с Тестами ? Как настроения в альянсе ? Или дальше форумов ничего не двинется ?
Вход
Регистрация
Отправлено 28 December 2012 - 22:49
Наверх
