ответы на пост Phreeze-a
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пост BlazdeКугу
English
Originally Posted by Phreeze View Post
Though Kaeydan is a dipshit, there has been and I assume continues to be friction between RAZOR and RAWR on a leadership level, though mostly minor. Standard allied bullshit things like coordination, IT integration, etc. The only real friction that existed for some time ended after I left, which was the resistance to the change of the relationship between RAWR and RAZOR from equal partners to Razor being a subsidiary of RAWR.
I don't doubt there's quit a lot of truth in this post but what always strikes me most about your stories from inside the NC is what a narrow perspective you have time wise. If you look over the history of the NC (going back way before you were playing EVE) there's been periods of time when RAWR carried RZR in terms of military leadership and other times when RZR clearly carried RAWR (and at least one notable occasion when PURE carried us both). This is one of the strengths of the the NC, with a bit of luck not every alliance has it's rough patch at the same time. You joined what..? after MAX pretty much but I'm guessing weren't in RZR leadership until early in Delve or at least after we went south. There's no doubt RAWR led the Tribute defence. We had to it was our territory. After that RZR FCs were instrumental in pushing hard back into Pure Blind/Fade and assisting TCF with Deklein, which our burnt out FCs were really grateful for, and then dragging us south really fast. After that both alliances picked their own way through the various southern theatres under their own reasonably well functioning leadership, although obviously Goons were key in providing the momentum in Delve and Querious later in the war. But both RAWR and RZR carried their own weight in different ways, notably for example RZR in Querious early in the war, RAWR later on in Period Basis.
I'll ignore most of your second post cos it's just you pointing out as usual how every alliance you're not in sucks But this bit you're really confused about so I'll explain:
During the Querious war, RAWR took the easy excuse to abandon the campaign when Tri shot up some of their moons.
The thing that usually stops Tri being even slightly dangerous is that they have practically zero stamina for shooting towers which means if you need to you can blueball them and fight a more dangerous war elsewhere then come and deal with them later without them doing too much damage in the meantime. What happened while we were in Delve is that they actually got a pretty high tempo going along with White Noise and Error (the so-called WTF coalition) and were attacking a lot of towers suddenly, throwing around a huge cap fleet and lots of titans, and they were taking highends for a change which just spurred them on. We weren't even slightly bothered about losing a few highends but we were very bothered about stopping Tri's campaign before it got any bigger. We had intel at the time that Tri were trying to form a much bigger anti-NC coalition (similar to what they eventually did in December) and snowball their campaign into a big northern war which could have screwed up Delve. We also had intel that Tri were absolutely desperate for ISK to fund a bigger cap fleet (you'll remember all the drama about ROL supposedly funding them in the end) so keeping highends out of Tri's hands was a much bigger objective than keeping them in ours.
Anyway most of that war was managed without any RAWR members going back, besides a few gunner alts and that. MH especially (but also IRON and INIT) were really helpful in keeping them occupied on a daily basis and slowing their moon progress, but everyone agreed we needed a significant capital victory over Tri/WN to knock back their enthusiasm and hopefully end their campaign quickly. We tried 2-3 times mass-clonejumping back from Delve and dropping on Tri in Venal in <10 minutes but didn't get close to catching a titan or a dread fleet like we really wanted. All those times we were back in Delve/Querious 24 hours later. Eventually after they'd taken 5-6 highends and had another big set in reinforced we went back to reset them to zero hoping that would curb their enthusiasm. More by chance than planning they'd gotten so bold by then that they actually let us engage them in a dread battle (E-7 fight) which let us wipe out about 65 of their dreads.
This was the weekend just after Ken's seige of ILY and everyone was aware how critical it was. Friday/Saturday overnight a vast amount of Goon towers were saved there and that big success basically dictated our decision to go north on saturday evening. Sunday we nailed Tri's dread fleet and reinforced all their important towers. Unfortunately we failed to follow up on a couple of those towers so by tuesday we had to do another round of reinforcing and didn't finish killing them til thurday. Friday morning we were back in Delve. The whole time we kept our eye on the south and even had US tz FCs and plenty of members still down there with our EU guys ready to be back at a moments notice, but Ken's ILY assault failed miserably so we didn't need to. I've no idea who's morale you think was injured by our absence. Goons enjoyed hearing about Tri getting a good kicking.
So like 8 days we were gone, in total during 4 months of Delve/Querious/PB campaiging. As a result of the cap fight Tri and WN basically fell out and the threat was neutralised (although Tri carried on giving IRON/MH trouble at much lower level) and we fought two wars at once. Good stuff.
Oh but hey don't take my word for it, take yours two days after we returned south:
http://www.eve-searc...035/page/11#318Man, I haven't ranted about RAZOR in forever
You do it all the bloody time. Like I said, narrow perspective time-wise.. comes from being young I guess. Anyway while I'm ripping apart your conslusions a bit I agree it was still an interesting post (first one that is, second was just weak) if you account for bias when reading it. One day when RAWR is dead and buried I dream of living out my days as a bitter vet relating interesting tales of internal drama. More people should do it.
Хотя Kaeydan и засранец, но раньше были, и я предполагаю продолжаются тёрки между лидерами Разоров и ММ, хотя по большей части мелкие. Стандартная союзная херня как координация, айти интеграция и т.д. Единственная настоящая тёрка была на протяжении определённого времени и закончилась когда я ушол, которая заключалась в сопротивлении к изменению отношений между РЗР и ММ от полноправных партнёров к переходу РЗР в статус подопечных ММ.
Я не сомневаюсь что в твоём посте присутсвует не мало правды, но что меня больше всего поражает в твоих истроиях о НЦ так это насколько в твоих постах узканаправленая ретроспектива в плане времени. Если посмотреть на историю НЦ ( уходя назад ещё задлого до того времени когда ты начал играть в Еву) были периоды когда в плане военного лидерства ММ несли на себе РЗР и были времена когда РЗР нёс на себе ММ ( и по крайней мере один случай стоящий упоминания когда PURE нёс и РЗР и ММ). Это одна из сильных особенностей НЦ, при не большой удаче не все альянсы будут находится на тяжёлом отрезке их существования одновременно. Ты вступил когда? .. В принципе, после МАХ и я предполагаю не был в составе лидеров РЗР до начала компании в Делве или, по крайней мере, до того как мы уехали на юг. Не сомнений что ММ вели при обороне Трибьюта. Мы были обязаны, так как это наши домашние территории. После этого фк РЗР были важны при оттеснении врага назад в Пьюр Блайнд/Фэйд и помощи ТЦФ в Декляйне, а потом и быстром затаскивании нас назад на юг, за что наши вымотаные фк были благодарны. После чего оба альянса занимались своими делами в различных местах военных действий соответственно под своим хорошо функционирующим руководством, хотя конечно же, позднее в войне, Гуны были ключевыми фигурами дававшими запал в Делве и Квериусе. Но оба РЗР и ММ несли свою ношу в разных ситуациях, например РЗР в Квериусе в начале войны, ММ поздее в Период Бэйсисе.
Я проигнорирую большую часть твоего второго поста потому что в нём ты указываешь на вещи почему любой альянс в котором ты не сосотоишь сосёт. Но эта часть в которой ты не много ошибаешься, так что я обьясню:
Во время войны за Квериус, ММ использовали лёгкое оправдание для ухода из компании когда Три постреляли несколько их лун
{Я очень извиняюсь, но так получилось что у меня сейчас нет времени перевести пост полностью, так что напишу "отсебятину", а не полный перевод. Просто хотелось что бы были аргументы "другой стороны"}
Blazde пишет о том что всем давно известно что у Три нет стамины на ведение длительных войн и что им хватает нескольких поражений что бы закончить войну. Но на тот моент Три,ВН и Эрор взяли довольно большой темп и их следовало остановить. Хотя МХ Айроны и Инициативы пытались сражаться с Три и ко, но нужна была большая победа что бы остановить войну. пару раз ММ клонджампались. но не смогли подловить Три и ко. Но в один солнечный день получилось зрубиться кап флотом в Е-7. Говорит о деталях их войныс Три и ко, бла бла бла.
Уточняет что ММ оутсвовали всего 8 дней из 4 месяцев.
Даёт ссылку на слова Phreeza гдк тот пишет что война с Три и компанией фигня и не мешает НЦ вообще никак.
http://www.eve-searc...035/page/11#318**********************************************
пост Phreeze
http://www.kugutsume...ull=1#post80495
Англ
Who is your ingame character?
You seem to have the "my alliance is awesome in everything" viewpoint going without any of the behind the scene facts.
For example, you would know that the "larger anti-NC coalition " that was forming was infiltrated at the highest leadership level by myself, with Uaxdeath's help, with me posing as one of his alt characters, and that we knew from those obervations that their "coalition" was a gigantic joke that existed in good feelings only between their members. There was never any remote possibility of them being a threat. It might have been spun that way to the average joe for fleet participation
You would also know that "the plan" referenced in that post was the bluff that the "entire NC" was coming down to save I1Y, when in actuality no one came down other than 10-15 WI dudes, something pretty well chronicled after the fact.
Bailing to deal with tri is an opinion thing. I doubt you'll ever see it my way, but I'm pretty confident that tri was more of an excuse rather than any sort of existential threat when it came down to the leadership decision.
Anyways, we can agree to disagree.
Also, laffo at Mr. Clomsaver looking for a burn.
Phreeze пишет что война куйня - главное манёвры и что у него с помощью Дича был альт в лидершипе ВТФ коалиции ( Три и компания) и что он постил этим альтом (хз где. не уточняет) и что с самого начала было ясно что они не опасны ( они всмысле ВТФ). Типо он по прежнему считает что уход ММ с юга был больше отмазкой чем необходимостью.
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Пост CEI Fred0
http://www.kugutsume...ull=1#post80769
English
Considering the exaggerated bashing we got here I just had to register and get it straightened out.
RZR are doing fine. Most of the major fights I look at we're doing OK'ish numberwise and doing excellent compared to other NC entities considering this is far from an all caps, daily motivational updates, morale preaching campaign yet.
Учитывая преувеличенный срыв покровов я просто обязан был зарегистрироваться тут и расставить точки над и.
У РЗР всё в порядке. Во всех боях которые я видел у нас всё "нормальненько" в плане кол-ва пилотов и просто отлично по отношению с другими членами НЦ, учитывая что мы далеки от писанины капсом, мотивационных апдейтов и компании на мораль буст.
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Вообщем как-то так, галопом по европам.
Сообщение отредактировал login: 21 April 2010 - 12:52